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Who is to blame?

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 18 Dec 19 4.01pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

When we have PR then that remark will have some validity.

Right now we have the will of a minority who have given it to a party who regard their MPs as just lobby fodder. Who is actually deciding the policy direction from here on is unknown but it isn't the people and their representatives!

52% is a majority but that was ignored

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Dec 19 10.00pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Some may have noticed I hardly posted anything during the election period, as I concentrated on trying to get Labour activists to see how stupid it was to leave Corbyn as their leader. Unsurprisingly I failed as spectacularly as I do here but I I also learned quite a lot. In my view they are not going to change direction and as a consequence are destined to become a protest group.

I returned to see what the impact of the result would be for this group. I anticipated triumphalism but actually saw very little. What I also expected was the abuse and insults that seem to follow whatever I say. I wondered if this would increase and It has.

I feared the huge majority would validate their opinions in the minds of the hard right and embolden them. From the little sample here that fear seems to be justified. If it is repeated across the country, and especially in Parliament, then I worry about the impact on our social cohesion in the coming 5 or more years. Without an effective opposition what stands in the way of the Tories to do whatever they want?

Another poster recently described the cabal of members here who delight in attacking me, for my style as much as my arguments, as “numpties” and in the past few days they seem to have been going out of their way to justify that description.

Nevertheless, as I understand that they are often seeking confirmation of their bias by shooting the messenger whilst ignoring the message, I don’t take it personally or respond in kind.

However it really doesn’t get anyone very far and from my point of view banging my head against a brick wall is pretty pointless when all it achieves is a headache. That’s especially true is the wall is particularly dense or thick.

What we have witnessed in the past day or two has more resembled the kids nursery I once owned than an adult debate. Of course in a nursery the staff would intervene and stop the bullying. Many of you would now be sitting on the naughty step until you apologised. Of course here that doesn’t happen as the staff join in. To continue the analogy it is like the teacher in a playground hiding behind the bike shed having a sly fag with the principal bully whilst sympathising with the mob giving a kicking to the unfortunate they have decided doesn’t fit in.

So I now don’t intend to respond to posts which in my judgement are primarily intended just to attack me. I will post my observations as I see fit and ignore any response which doesn’t engage with the argument.

I now expect that any reply will be of the "I don't care" variety.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 18 Dec 19 10.25pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Some may have noticed I hardly posted anything during the election period, as I concentrated on trying to get Labour activists to see how stupid it was to leave Corbyn as their leader. Unsurprisingly I failed as spectacularly as I do here but I I also learned quite a lot. In my view they are not going to change direction and as a consequence are destined to become a protest group.

I returned to see what the impact of the result would be for this group. I anticipated triumphalism but actually saw very little. What I also expected was the abuse and insults that seem to follow whatever I say. I wondered if this would increase and It has.

I feared the huge majority would validate their opinions in the minds of the hard right and embolden them. From the little sample here that fear seems to be justified. If it is repeated across the country, and especially in Parliament, then I worry about the impact on our social cohesion in the coming 5 or more years. Without an effective opposition what stands in the way of the Tories to do whatever they want?

Another poster recently described the cabal of members here who delight in attacking me, for my style as much as my arguments, as “numpties” and in the past few days they seem to have been going out of their way to justify that description.

Nevertheless, as I understand that they are often seeking confirmation of their bias by shooting the messenger whilst ignoring the message, I don’t take it personally or respond in kind.

However it really doesn’t get anyone very far and from my point of view banging my head against a brick wall is pretty pointless when all it achieves is a headache. That’s especially true is the wall is particularly dense or thick.

What we have witnessed in the past day or two has more resembled the kids nursery I once owned than an adult debate. Of course in a nursery the staff would intervene and stop the bullying. Many of you would now be sitting on the naughty step until you apologised. Of course here that doesn’t happen as the staff join in. To continue the analogy it is like the teacher in a playground hiding behind the bike shed having a sly fag with the principal bully whilst sympathising with the mob giving a kicking to the unfortunate they have decided doesn’t fit in.

So I now don’t intend to respond to posts which in my judgement are primarily intended just to attack me. I will post my observations as I see fit and ignore any response which doesn’t engage with the argument.

I now expect that any reply will be of the "I don't care" variety.

Ah, cerebral hygiene. Always a good option and one firmly espoused by plenty of people

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Dec 19 10.29pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

I thought you were about to flounce. Only an 1/8 less arrogant than usual so 7/8 of the usual arrogance.

First paragraph was particularly amusing and eyebrow raising that you always think you can change everyone and their thinking.

The daily few dozen posts telling people how parliament runs, when it doesn’t, and isn’t the full procedure, even if it is in the procedure is why you get some stiff replies. And you’re surprised. One day you might see why there’s an issue here. For someone with intelligence you’re displaying a lack of some in this respect.

You’ve also used principles only when they suit you. Majority votes for example.

I haven’t seen much too personal apart from when they’ve had the 11th incorrect lesson of how parliament works, when actually it doesn’t. If you didn’t do this then there’s a good chance your replies and experience would be different, however, you’re here as an activist and are therefore not going to listen I expect in your relentless forcing of opinion, because that is what it is, not fact or the exact science a lot of activists seem to think what they’re pushing is. I guess they need that thick skin, relentless endeavour and deafness to try and browbeat everyone.

However, you might be a likeable chap so I wish you goodnight.


Edited by Rudi Hedman (18 Dec 2019 10.31pm)

 


COYP

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 18 Dec 19 10.37pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I thought you were about to flounce. Only an 1/8 less arrogant than usual so 7/8 of the usual arrogance.

First paragraph was particularly amusing and eyebrow raising that you always think you can change everyone and their thinking.

The daily few dozen posts telling people how parliament runs, when it doesn’t, and isn’t the full procedure, even if it is in the procedure is why you get some stiff replies. And you’re surprised. One day you might see why there’s an issue here. For someone with intelligence you’re displaying a lack of some in this respect.

You’ve also used principles only when they suit you. Majority votes for example.

I haven’t seen much too personal apart from when they’ve had the 11th incorrect lesson of how parliament works, when actually it doesn’t. If you didn’t do this then there’s a good chance your replies and experience would be different, however, you’re here as an activist and are therefore not going to listen I expect in your relentless forcing of opinion, because that is what it is, not fact or the exact science a lot of activists seem to think what they’re pushing is. I guess they need that thick skin, relentless endeavour and deafness to try and browbeat everyone.

However, you might be a likeable chap so I wish you goodnight.


Edited by Rudi Hedman (18 Dec 2019 10.31pm)

Relentless endeavour eh? I think he likes you Wisbech.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Dec 19 10.49pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Relentless endeavour eh? I think he likes you Wisbech.

I was being polite. Some of the ignorant to any other view activists on tv in the last week don’t deserve manners from the public seeing how they interrupt, talk over opponents or just people and ignore any results or evidence in front of them. Like listening to cold call monkeys on the phone.

 


COYP

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 18 Dec 19 10.58pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

It must be very frustrating to interview people that cynically avoid answering questions and actively talk you out to prevent discourse. It was a tactic I first suffered from in Romania in the early 90s. The politicians there would literally speak for hours to avoid actually talking. The height of rudeness and abuse of power

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Dec 19 11.00pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

It must be very frustrating to interview people that cynically avoid answering questions and actively talk you out to prevent discourse. It was a tactic I first suffered from in Romania in the early 90s. The politicians there would literally speak for hours to avoid actually talking. The height of rudeness and abuse of power

This week I have seen Ash Sarkar apologise for interrupting on the late night sky news press preview. I almost choked in bed on my late night water. Maybe they’ve all received a memo. People aren’t impressed.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (18 Dec 2019 11.09pm)

 


COYP

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Midlands Eagle Flag 19 Dec 19 6.32am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

It must be very frustrating to interview people that cynically avoid answering questions and actively talk you out to prevent discourse. It was a tactic I first suffered from in Romania in the early 90s. The politicians there would literally speak for hours to avoid actually talking. The height of rudeness and abuse of power

How did you suffer from it? Can we add political interviewer to your already lengthy CV

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 19 Dec 19 7.28am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Wisbech - You bear remarkable similarities to someone who has been in the news a lot recently. Who do you know who's strongly held opinions and convictions are disliked by and out of kilter with the majority, who believes that only his way is the right way and who is always unfailingly polite. Yes you're correct it's Jeremy Corbyn

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Dec 19 10.47am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Wisbech - You bear remarkable similarities to someone who has been in the news a lot recently. Who do you know who's strongly held opinions and convictions are disliked by and out of kilter with the majority, who believes that only his way is the right way and who is always unfailingly polite. Yes you're correct it's Jeremy Corbyn

I said I wouldn't respond to such comments again but because of your position I will make an exception.

Out of kilter with the "majority"? Are you seriously suggesting that the views expressed here represent the majority? The views here are certainly part of the majority that achieved the election result but they are very far from being in the Tory mainstream. Many are more in tune with Farage, or even further to the right. Certainly not the "one nation" Conservatism that Johnson now claims as his own!

My views and Corbyn's are poles apart but that's not the only difference.

Corbyn is detested by all except a fairly small and increasingly insignificant minority.

I am just detested on here. I know of nowhere else where I receive such treatment.

There are a number of web forums where I receive fulsome praise and where people with your kind of views are routinely unmercilessly ridiculed. I don't though hang around such places as, unlike many here, I am not looking for constant confirmation of my own biases.

So the differences are many.

 


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Midlands Eagle Flag 19 Dec 19 10.58am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Out of kilter with the "majority"? Are you seriously suggesting that the views expressed here represent the majority? The views here are certainly part of the majority that achieved the election result but they are very far from being in the Tory mainstream.

I have noticed before that you have a very crafty way of twisting your replies so that they aren't actually replying to the question at all so you obviously have something in common with Boris Johnson as well.

When I said that your views were out of kilter with the majority I'm sure that everyone else realised that I was referring to the majority of the population of England and not this forum

 

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