Our Daughter Holly
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 jcreedy  12 Mar 04 9.55am |
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Quote the despotic banana at 11 Mar 2004 11:56pm
Obviously if sex with women above the age of 16 was outlawed tomorrow you'd have the strength of mind to go your whole life without giving in to your sexual desires. You can't imagine what it must feel like to have that gnawing away inside you for years, and you can't imagine what lengths that would drive you to. Obviously I don't condone rape or murder but let's face it, society drives them to it. Edited by the despotic banana (11 Mar 2004 11:57pm)
It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. - John Bostock (Nov 2007) |
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 Bexter  By the Sea 12 Mar 04 10.17am |
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i didn't watch it because i was out, but i don't think i could have anyway. we do live in a very f-ed up country at the moment, family values are a rare thing and we are seen abroad (in places like italy for instance which has strong family values and much less child crime) as a nation of perverts and child abusers. and we are, and it's shocking and embarrassing and tragic. i don't know how we deal with it but it is a major problem. not saying i understand why he did it or feel any sympathy for him, but he is one case of many and it is scary. i cannot even begin to feel what the parents felt, just the pictures of holly's dad in the paper were enough for me. tragic.
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| Moose In the sewer pipe... 12 Mar 04 10.21am |
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Quote Palace Hero at 12 Mar 2004 8:43am
I agree with what you are trying to say Despotic, in theory it is right. In a forgiving and open world, crimes like this may not have been commited, and sick people like Huntley would hopefully have gotten the help they needed before doing something as unforgiveable as killing those poor girls. However, that is only a theory. Communism in theory is the most perfect, utopic and democratic system for people to live by. Similar to your ideals, it is about people working for the benefit of others. However in practice it collapses, as human nature doesn't allow such equality. Just like in this situation, human nature will never allow Ian Huntley to ever be forgiven, nor in peoples eyes can justice ever be achieved. Killing him is too good, but nothing else is harsh enough. That is the sad reality of the situation, and no matter how much you want more kindness in the world to prevent crimes like those against Holly and Jessica, the crime has been commited and no longer does any rehabilitation apply to Huntley. He has gone past the point of no return and like has been said, has forfeited both the right to live amongst other people, or live at all. I wont chastise your opinions Despo, you have a right to them and I don't think they carry any malice at all, in fact it is obviously the opposite. You aren't advocating Huntley, just pointing out the possibilities in the situation. But in such a sensitive issue, your opinion should have been kept to yourself, as most people aren't going to accept it, and respond aggresively. A better way to go about things is to apply your theories in the future, to prevent these sorts of crimes. Because no matter how good your intentions are, they no longer apply to Ian Huntley or any other criminal that has done such a terrible deed. That is an excellent post, PH. Despotic, society just will never understand, accept or forgive crimes such as Huntley's. I'm not even sure I'd want the Utopian society that would try. Although I'm sure that some paedophiles bitterly regret what they have done, the overriding fact in this case is that Huntley's only regret was getting caught. His defence was primarily along the lines of "I killed them, now prove I did it on purpose." In that way, he has never shown remorse for what he did, and has never provided any sort of closure to Holly and Jessica's parents. The bloke is an animal and deserves to end his days in prison (I'm against the death penalty and that would be too good for him anyway). Let him spend the rest of his miserable existance mulling over what he's done, by himself, in a cell, with none of the cushy privileges some other prisoners seem to enjoy.
Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to. |
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| Bexter By the Sea 12 Mar 04 10.23am |
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indeed, he wont be seeing the light of day so no point in giving him any therapy. not to say it's not a good idea to try and nip future huntley's in the bud with some kind of help - not for their sakes so much as any future victims.
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| Meerkat 2 1957 12 Mar 04 10.41am |
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Quote Petealiator at 11 Mar 2004 10:47pm
The program tonight. I don't know what to say. It had me in tears throughout much of it. It upset me immensely, I really shouldn't have watched it, but I knew I would have to. I'm left feeling so very hollow and defeated by the sickness of this vile filthy world of perverts and evil, but my absolute and total admiration of the Wells family gives me something positive to cling to. Something to continue to strive for. Wonderful, strong, good people. The unimportant ordinary backbone of this island. But I'm left feeling that with the aid of well-meaning liberal ideals and human rights for all no matter what; evil is winning the battle.
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| Bexter By the Sea 12 Mar 04 10.49am |
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how are liberal thinkers to blame for the evils of huntley? not being fiesty - just want to hear why!
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| Petealiator 1066 Country! 12 Mar 04 10.51am |
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Right, let me first apologise to Despotic for last night's rant. I was in no mood for a row and it was a childish knee-jerk reaction. You are a decent enough lad and as Palace Hero said, there in no malice in your beliefs. I don't really think it's worth arguing the toss over this either, I think the gulf between our basic beliefs is far too wide to bridge. You believe that all Human life is - for want of a better word - sacred, I don't! Your beliefs are basically biological, i.e. we're all the same, we're all Human, whilst mine are more spiritual, even religious if you like, I believe that mankind is becoming a worthless steaming pile of s***! I believe that evil lurks among us and is spreading like a disease and it lurks in the shape of human beings yet is no more human than the great white shark and has about the same capability for compassion. I believe mankind is embroiled in a battle between the forces of good and evil and evil is winning and is being aided by liberal attitudes. I believe the only way to cure the world of it's ills, to cure it's evil, is to face it head on, to fight it and eradicate it. I don't give a s*** if in your eyes that makes me as bad as the Huntley thing and his kind because I know I am a good man. The workings of a normal mind: Damn my gambling, it's like a drug, I just can't seem to stop and now I could really do with some serious dosh, in fact if I don't come up with twenty grand in the next two weeks I'm finished, I'll loose everything. I could rob a bank; the money would certainly make me feel a lot better, I'd keep the house, she wouldn't leave me and I'd be able to sleep at night, at the very least the terrible crushing anxiety would ease off a bit. I could go for debt counselling but society has already marked me out as a credit risk and a bad person, so f*** that, counselling won't help anyway, I need money and I need it NOW! But if I rob a bank, someone could get hurt, someone could even get killed! What to do? Hang on, what am I thinking, rob a bank? Maybe kill someone because of my own selfish needs and desires? f*** that! I'm no bank robber! I'm no killer! I'll go and talk to citizens advice! I'll even go and see my doctor. I'll talk to the wife. Maybe old Ron next door'll lend me a score! The workings of the insectile mind of the Huntley thing: The clear difference between good and evil.
My Rocksteady band... |
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| Bexter By the Sea 12 Mar 04 11.00am |
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what are the rates of child murder and peadophilia in less 'liberal' countries? or how about 'liberal' ones with strong family identity? why do mothers sit by and let their new boyfriends beat their kid to death in this country? where have we gone wrong? i don't know, i think blaming 'liberal' thinkers is an easy way to not have to face the fact that this country has few morals compared to others. by the way, for the record, i think he should rot in jail, get no help, get no luxuries, get beaten up, and i am not a pacifist or a commie - just for the record!
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| Petealiator 1066 Country! 12 Mar 04 11.06am |
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Bexter, I'm not blaming liberal thinkers at all, I'm saying that liberal attitudes aid these monsters in their endevours, it's because of liberal attitudes that so many of these things are on the street, preying on innocence instead of rotting in a cell or - given my way - dead!
My Rocksteady band... |
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| Jay_Palace 12 Mar 04 11.08am |
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I think that it is actually important to look beyond the obvious in this case, and instead ask the question WHY was a man with a history of sexual attacks against young women allowed to be put into a position where he would have day to day contact with young children? I'm not going to get drawn into why Huntley did what he did and who's responsible for it, but the fact remains that there was a vetting process in place specifically designed to stop individuals such as Huntley from coming into contact with children, and yet this process was totally ignored. We need to establish who was responsible for this happening, and make an example of them. There is too much of a 'don't blame me, because it's not MY fault' attitude in this country, and it is about time that people who mess up are made accountable for their actions. I expect to see heads roll over this whole debacle.
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| Bexter By the Sea 12 Mar 04 11.08am |
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how do 'liberal' attitudes aid these monsters? Edited by Bexter (12 Mar 2004 11:08am)
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| Meerkat 2 1957 12 Mar 04 11.13am |
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Quote Bexter at 12 Mar 2004 11:08am
how do 'liberal' attitudes aid these monsters? Edited by Bexter (12 Mar 2004 11:08am)
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