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Our Daughter Holly

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View cranes park eagle's Profile cranes park eagle Flag surbiton 15 Mar 04 3.25pm Send a Private Message to cranes park eagle Add cranes park eagle as a friend

I think there are separate issues here. Not paedophiles are child murderers just as not all those who have murdered a child are paedophiles. The issue here is that Huntley was a sick, depraved and manipulative man who needed to go further and further to satisfy his urges in the way of serial killers. After rape, what is the next step? I agree something in Huntleys past may have brought this about but in this case we have to throw the key away.
The child victims turned paedophiles could and should be helped before their proclivities cause real grief. Marking out known offenders to the rest of the neighbourhood will not make anyone feel safer. They will just want these people to go somewhere else and be someone elses problem.
Incidentally knowing right from wrong does not always stop people following their instincts be they sex, greed or power; or all three. If that were the case their would be no crime.

 


Hopkiiiin looking to curl onNNNE

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View w.w.j.d?'s Profile w.w.j.d? Flag Teddington (Hol Lower Block B Row ... 15 Mar 04 5.23pm Send a Private Message to w.w.j.d? Add w.w.j.d? as a friend

Spot on Becky.
And furthermore, let me just add that the only issue of forgiveness is for Holly and Jessica's parents. Whether 'we' (meaning the general public and all of us) forgive Huntley is not even an issue, it has nothing to do with us. Huntley has not wronged us, only the girls and their parents/family and friends. Sickened us yes, upset us maybe, but his crimes do not affect us in any way except our emotional response.
I think that's a distinction we need to make.

 


Aah, I love you Sonja. In a way.

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View JollyStef's Profile JollyStef 19 Mar 04 8.57am Send a Private Message to JollyStef Add JollyStef as a friend

Quote w.w.j.d? at 15 Mar 2004 5:23pm

Spot on Becky.
And furthermore, let me just add that the only issue of forgiveness is for Holly and Jessica's parents. Whether 'we' (meaning the general public and all of us) forgive Huntley is not even an issue, it has nothing to do with us. Huntley has not wronged us, only the girls and their parents/family and friends. Sickened us yes, upset us maybe, but his crimes do not affect us in any way except our emotional response.
I think that's a distinction we need to make.


You what ?? These crimes have been done within a legal system set up and agreed upon by law and by the representatives of the people (i.e. US).

How can you come up with "it doesn't have anything to do with us as he didn't harm us" ? So if the parents say "forgive him" he can go on and commit anything he wants .. ?

Forgiveness doesn't come into this .. it's a wrong doing towards the society and the values we all uphold as law abiding citizens. Of course we don't have to "forgive" him .. it has to do with ALL OF US as society and its laws set an example and a standard to everyone living in it.

Huntley is wrong and doesn't deserve our forgiveness (and the God thing .. what a load of bollox .. that means no-one would ever be trialed and sentences in our world ?? Cool, i'm looking forward to seeing how THAT will work in reality. I'll kill someone who I don't like .. can't be trialed for it, can I .. it's in the hands of GOD ..??? gimme a break.

Those 10 year olds don't deserve forgiveness .. I honestly don't give a f*** how messed up their childhoods were .. you just don't do stuff like that. Give the kids life and their parents f.e. 6 months in prison .. it's their fault too. If you can't give your kids proper values then you're not fit to be a parent, i.e. you should be punished too. Outside influences of course play a major role .. but it still doesn't excuse murder ! Breaking a window ok, murdering someone ?? Come on people ...

Those soft "values" makes people loose grip on society which makes it a mess. In this day and age the murderer has more bloody rights than the victims (I can see it in this country with the Dutroux case) .. HOW CAN YOU AGREE TO THESE THINGS, HOW CAN YOU BE SO "POLITICALLY CORRECT" THAT YOU BECOME SO SOFT AND FORGIVE JUST ANYBODY BECAUSE THEY COME AND CRY ABOUT THEIR "SAD CHILDHOOD" ??? THAT MAKES ME VOMIT !

Indeed, seeing some of those soft replies makes me understand more why society is going down the drain ..

 


finished

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View JollyStef's Profile JollyStef 19 Mar 04 8.59am Send a Private Message to JollyStef Add JollyStef as a friend

Quote Geoff Thomas at 13 Mar 2004 12:33am

How anyone can defend Huntley is beyond me!
He is a sick calculating pervert who deserves nothing short of a death penalty of which i firmly believe would be an easy way out for him.
If he was in a middle Eastern country he would probably be stoned to death(good).
Maybe i don`t or cannot understand mentally sick people but it must stem from somewhere.
As mentioned above the family values have dissapeared in this country there is no discipline i society anymore and if parents cannot bring up their kids with any morals or give them a thick ear when they need it then im affraid society is just going to be awfull for the likes of my under 2 son.
I was only saying to my wife the other day about simple good values in life ie Manners / Respect / Kindness and we both agreed that the parents are the major player in guiding our children.
Unfortunatley as schools have changed where they cannot cane or punish children anymore like thay did in our school then the fear factor in children is not there and then it turns the opposite way ie the teacher fears the child.
When i was young i was pertrified if a policeman or a teacher had a problem with either myself or friend and worst of all if ever my parents were to be contacted by either of them the shame alone would be punishment enough.
Times have changed for the worse since i left school and i am sure that kids know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age probably under 10 as mentioed by Bexter above and in my opinion if the child doesn`t then the parents have got it wrong.
I am not in favour of forgiveness when Murder in the sickest nature has happened to mere innocents who were helpless and in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Maybe its because im not a religous person as i believe that they are the only ones who could forgive Huntley for his acts perhaps thats why i do not get involved in religion and rightly so.
Before anyone gives it large anti death penalty comments just think for a second and think if only this could deter a few stupid killings it would be well worth it!

GT

Edited by Geoff Thomas (13 Mar 2004 12:35am)

AMEN to that .. A bloody MEN


 


finished

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View matt_the_eagle's Profile matt_the_eagle Flag Tulse Thrill 19 Mar 04 12.32pm Send a Private Message to matt_the_eagle Add matt_the_eagle as a friend

All nonces should be rounded up and killed.

Can't see how anyone can argue against it.

 


I think Keith Murray said it best when he rapped
"If you aint fly you cant play with my yo-yo".

I'm sure you'll agree.

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 19 Mar 04 1.03pm Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Quote matt_the_eagle at 19 Mar 2004 12:32pm

All nonces should be rounded up and killed.

Can't see how anyone can argue against it.

Apart from when they get the wrong guy!

 

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big fat london boy Flag gillingham..(pykey land) 19 Mar 04 2.29pm

spot on GT nothing really more to add..

Quote Geoff Thomas at 13 Mar 2004 12:33am

How anyone can defend Huntley is beyond me!
He is a sick calculating pervert who deserves nothing short of a death penalty of which i firmly believe would be an easy way out for him.
If he was in a middle Eastern country he would probably be stoned to death(good).
Maybe i don`t or cannot understand mentally sick people but it must stem from somewhere.
As mentioned above the family values have dissapeared in this country there is no discipline i society anymore and if parents cannot bring up their kids with any morals or give them a thick ear when they need it then im affraid society is just going to be awfull for the likes of my under 2 son.
I was only saying to my wife the other day about simple good values in life ie Manners / Respect / Kindness and we both agreed that the parents are the major player in guiding our children.
Unfortunatley as schools have changed where they cannot cane or punish children anymore like thay did in our school then the fear factor in children is not there and then it turns the opposite way ie the teacher fears the child.
When i was young i was pertrified if a policeman or a teacher had a problem with either myself or friend and worst of all if ever my parents were to be contacted by either of them the shame alone would be punishment enough.
Times have changed for the worse since i left school and i am sure that kids know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age probably under 10 as mentioed by Bexter above and in my opinion if the child doesn`t then the parents have got it wrong.
I am not in favour of forgiveness when Murder in the sickest nature has happened to mere innocents who were helpless and in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Maybe its because im not a religous person as i believe that they are the only ones who could forgive Huntley for his acts perhaps thats why i do not get involved in religion and rightly so.
Before anyone gives it large anti death penalty comments just think for a second and think if only this could deter a few stupid killings it would be well worth it!

GT

Edited by Geoff Thomas (13 Mar 2004 12:35am)


 


There's never a country in the world with the scent of an ENGLISH rose.....

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big fat london boy Flag gillingham..(pykey land) 19 Mar 04 2.30pm

utter drivel ...

Quote becky at 13 Mar 2004 10:18pm

No, not even the religious have the authority forgive these crimes. Forgiveness is in the hands of God alone, and then only when there is repentance.


 


There's never a country in the world with the scent of an ENGLISH rose.....

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View Bexter's Profile Bexter Flag By the Sea 19 Mar 04 2.42pm Send a Private Message to Bexter Add Bexter as a friend

'Before anyone gives it large anti death penalty comments just think for a second and think if only this could deter a few stupid killings it would be well worth it'

without wanting to start the whole death penalty debate - just a quick point, it does not deter murder as proved in america over and over again. and innocent people get wrongly convicted. if it worked as a deterrent and there was a way of making sure you were 100% correct when convicting someone, lots may feel differently.

 

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View matt_the_eagle's Profile matt_the_eagle Flag Tulse Thrill 19 Mar 04 4.08pm Send a Private Message to matt_the_eagle Add matt_the_eagle as a friend

This isn't a death penalty debate, I just think nonces don't deserve the air we breath.

 


I think Keith Murray said it best when he rapped
"If you aint fly you cant play with my yo-yo".

I'm sure you'll agree.

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View Petealiator's Profile Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 19 Mar 04 9.31pm Send a Private Message to Petealiator Add Petealiator as a friend

Here's a curve ball for the Christians in this debate...

A fundamental basic duty of Christians may be forgiveness towards his fellow man, but there's also a solemn duty to fight the good fight; the fight against evil; The fight against Satan and his legions. Am I wrong? Or do you forgive Satan? Or do you simply not believe in Satan? Which would imply you don't actually believe in evil and so can't possibly believe in God? By denying the fact that evil walks among us in the shape of men, you deny a fundamental aspect of the bible and of Christianity itself. My point being that Christianity is a religion, a strong and ancient religion, not some wishy-washy retirement plan for the love generation of the sixties, surely to God it's time for Christians to face facts and take up arms against evil?

 


My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
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IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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View rach_cpfc's Profile rach_cpfc Flag South Croydon 19 Mar 04 11.19pm Send a Private Message to rach_cpfc Add rach_cpfc as a friend

Oh, you love to ask easy questions huh Pete?!

A fundamental basic duty of Christians may be forgiveness towards his fellow man, but there's also a solemn duty to fight the good fight; the fight against evil; The fight against Satan and his legions. Am I wrong?
Ok, the Christian faith is based on the forgiveness of our sins by God; and Christians are directed to forgive others, as part of trying to lead a "God-like" life.
Yes you are right, Christians are also meant to stand up for what is right. But I don't see that as being directly opposed to forgiveness - for something to need to be forgiven it must surely have been recognised as wrong.

Or do you forgive Satan? Or do you simply not believe in Satan? Which would imply you don't actually believe in evil and so can't possibly believe in God? By denying the fact that evil walks among us in the shape of men, you deny a fundamental aspect of the bible and of Christianity itself.
Of course I believe in Satan, God does!! But it's not my place to forgive or not forgive him. I don't believe that "evil walks among us in the shape of men" as such. I believe that evil can become deeply embedded into some people, but as everyone is created by God, who is good, there must therefore be some good in everyone, even it that just seems impossible to us in some cases.
And that's not saying that God wont judge, but "let those who have committed no sin cast the first stone"


My point being that Christianity is a religion, a strong and ancient religion, not some wishy-washy retirement plan for the love generation of the sixties, surely to God it's time for Christians to face facts and take up arms against evil?
That depends on what you mean by take up arms. I refuse to fight violence with more violence.
Christianity isn't, or at least shouldn't be, wishy-washy, but love isn't always wishy-washy - it can be an incredibly powerful force.

These are my views anyway - based on my faith but I'm not saying it's what all Christians would say.

Ultimately it's about grace, which is very hard to comprehend.

 


"....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow
weary, they will walk and not be faint."

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