UKIP would ban the burka

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 24 Apr 17 12.05pm
Like a lot of things, I have mixed feelings about this. UKIP's motives smack of opportunism. As others have said we are meant to be a free country There are however questions to be asked about the burqa and niqab being worn. It doesn't make you a racist to question their use. Wearing the burka in large numbers is a relatively new phenomenon in the UK. Driven by conservative Muslims. To pretend that the widespread use does not have an impact on assimilation into the UK culture will cause more problems in the long run. The burqa does not invite interaction, that is the purpose of it. And Nick, to use Stevie Wonder as an example is facile and does nothing for the discussion. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 24 Apr 17 12.05pm

Like a lot of things, I have mixed feelings about this.

UKIP's motives smack of opportunism.

As others have said we are meant to be a free country

There are however questions to be asked about the burqa and niqab being worn. It doesn't make you a racist to question their use.

Wearing the burka in large numbers is a relatively new phenomenon in the UK. Driven by conservative Muslims.

To pretend that the widespread use does not have an impact on assimilation into the UK culture will cause more problems in the long run. The burqa does not invite interaction, that is the purpose of it.

And Nick, to use Stevie Wonder as an example is facile and does nothing for the discussion.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Apr 17 12.08pm
Originally posted by Part Time James Exactly. Since when has wearing a crucifix been a security risk?! I'm not sure that UKIP are asking for a ban on burkas because they are offended by specific religious garb. The security issue is a practical matter and needs to be considered by those that police it. Religion has many different expressions and although I reject all forms,I do not think that religion in general is the problem in itself. The specific problem here is that this particular expression is from a matriarchal religion that makes demands which go completely contrary to everything that our society has aspired to for women. In this case any attempt to be tolerant of religions has to be outweighed by doing the right thing by half the population. It's no good making the argument that some women want to wear the Burka because that desire is driven by a lifetime of indoctrination. I would use the word brainwashing but some bright spark will tell me that is technically wrong. Sometimes we have to stick by and enforce our principles for the good of society, and for me, religious practice of any sort takes second place to that.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Apr 17 12.08pm

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Originally posted by Part Time James

Exactly. Since when has wearing a crucifix been a security risk?! I'm not sure that UKIP are asking for a ban on burkas because they are offended by specific religious garb.

The security issue is a practical matter and needs to be considered by those that police it.
Religion has many different expressions and although I reject all forms,I do not think that religion in general is the problem in itself.
The specific problem here is that this particular expression is from a matriarchal religion that makes demands which go completely contrary to everything that our society has aspired to for women. In this case any attempt to be tolerant of religions has to be outweighed by doing the right thing by half the population.
It's no good making the argument that some women want to wear the Burka because that desire is driven by a lifetime of indoctrination. I would use the word brainwashing but some bright spark will tell me that is technically wrong.
Sometimes we have to stick by and enforce our principles for the good of society, and for me, religious practice of any sort takes second place to that.

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Kermit8 Hevon 24 Apr 17 12.12pm
Ban the full Burkha. Tax-breaks on those wearing the slightly transparent super-sexy yashmak. #VoteforUKermit Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 24 Apr 17 12.12pm

Ban the full Burkha.

Tax-breaks on those wearing the slightly transparent super-sexy yashmak.

#VoteforUKermit

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Part Time James 24 Apr 17 12.14pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The security issue is a practical matter and needs to be considered by those that police it. Religion has many different expressions and although I reject all forms,I do not think that religion in general is the problem in itself. The specific problem here is that this particular expression is from a matriarchal religion that makes demands which go completely contrary to everything that our society has aspired to for women. In this case any attempt to be tolerant of religions has to be outweighed by doing the right thing by half the population. It's no good making the argument that some women want to wear the Burka because that desire is driven by a lifetime of indoctrination. I would use the word brainwashing but some bright spark will tell me that is technically wrong. Sometimes we have to stick by and enforce our principles for the good of society, and for me, religious practice of any sort takes second place to that. In a similar vein, I have some liberal vegan friends that are rather conflicted by the acceptance of other cultures vs halal slaughter. I find it quite amusing but resist baiting them. Usually.
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Part Time James

24 Apr 17 12.14pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

In a similar vein, I have some liberal vegan friends that are rather conflicted by the acceptance of other cultures vs halal slaughter. I find it quite amusing but resist baiting them. Usually.

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Part Time James 24 Apr 17 12.15pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Ban the full Burkha. Tax-breaks on those wearing the slightly transparent super-sexy yashmak. #VoteforUKermit Count me in. I was undecided.
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Part Time James

24 Apr 17 12.15pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Ban the full Burkha.

Tax-breaks on those wearing the slightly transparent super-sexy yashmak.

#VoteforUKermit

Count me in. I was undecided.

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Kermit8 Hevon 24 Apr 17 12.25pm
Originally posted by Part Time James Count me in. I was undecided. ok. Yashmak in the post. It was meant to be a policy just for women but the masculininists on here have pm'd me already with some choice language and y-front burning threats. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 24 Apr 17 12.25pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Count me in. I was undecided.

ok. Yashmak in the post. It was meant to be a policy just for women but the masculininists on here have pm'd me already with some choice language and y-front burning threats.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Part Time James 24 Apr 17 12.28pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 ok. Yashmak in the post. It was meant to be a policy just for women but the masculininists on here have pm'd me already with some choice language and y-front burning threats. I am just concerned that if everyone was wearing see through clothes I'd end up delivering a hard brexit.
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Part Time James

24 Apr 17 12.28pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

ok. Yashmak in the post. It was meant to be a policy just for women but the masculininists on here have pm'd me already with some choice language and y-front burning threats.

I am just concerned that if everyone was wearing see through clothes I'd end up delivering a hard brexit.

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Brentmiester_General Front line in the battle against t... 24 Apr 17 12.56pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's called indoctrination and male domination. Think about what it means in the context of Western society and how much women have had to strive to gain equality. And we sit around comparing it to eating fish and chips in Spain. Give me strength. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (24 Apr 2017 11.05am) It's just another opportunistic attack on Islam. Live and let live. If they can't do the same, ignore them. This law will never be passed. It would cause more anger from Islam. More attacks and more hatered on both sides. "We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...
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Brentmiester_General

Front line in the battle against t... 24 Apr 17 12.56pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It's called indoctrination and male domination.

Think about what it means in the context of Western society and how much women have had to strive to gain equality.
And we sit around comparing it to eating fish and chips in Spain.
Give me strength.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (24 Apr 2017 11.05am)

It's just another opportunistic attack on Islam. Live and let live. If they can't do the same, ignore them. This law will never be passed. It would cause more anger from Islam. More attacks and more hatered on both sides.

"We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...

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jamiemartin721 Reading 24 Apr 17 1.07pm
Originally posted by Part Time James I am just concerned that if everyone was wearing see through clothes I'd end up delivering a hard brexit. If that were the case I'd have voted a Hard Remain... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 24 Apr 17 1.07pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

I am just concerned that if everyone was wearing see through clothes I'd end up delivering a hard brexit.

If that were the case I'd have voted a Hard Remain...

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 24 Apr 17 1.08pm
Originally posted by Brentmiester_General It's just another opportunistic attack on Islam. Live and let live. If they can't do the same, ignore them. This law will never be passed. It would cause more anger from Islam. More attacks and more hatered on both sides. I think it would actually be unlawful to pass it under the Equality Act, which protects religious rights. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 24 Apr 17 1.08pm

Originally posted by Brentmiester_General

I think it would actually be unlawful to pass it under the Equality Act, which protects religious rights.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 24 Apr 17 1.23pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch Like a lot of things, I have mixed feelings about this. UKIP's motives smack of opportunism. As others have said we are meant to be a free country There are however questions to be asked about the burqa and niqab being worn. It doesn't make you a racist to question their use. Wearing the burka in large numbers is a relatively new phenomenon in the UK. Driven by conservative Muslims. To pretend that the widespread use does not have an impact on assimilation into the UK culture will cause more problems in the long run. The burqa does not invite interaction, that is the purpose of it. And Nick, to use Stevie Wonder as an example is facile and does nothing for the discussion. Seconded. I view the burqa as a symbol of the oppression of women as is the niqab...but if women wear it willingly as an expression of their commitment to their indoctrination then so be it. Even the hijab is still annoying to me. The idea from Islam that women should dress 'modestly' is an implied insult to all women who don't. But obviously many women wear it as an expression of faith and see it differently so fair enough. All things being equal and fair we should all except difference. What is important is that secularism is protected in law....All those who speak of attacks on Islam should look at Turkey and to a lesser extent America to see what religion does to all political systems when it is allowed to grow unchecked. Though I don't feel we need to necessarily hinder how people dress. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Apr 2017 1.24pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Apr 17 1.23pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Like a lot of things, I have mixed feelings about this.

UKIP's motives smack of opportunism.

As others have said we are meant to be a free country

There are however questions to be asked about the burqa and niqab being worn. It doesn't make you a racist to question their use.

Wearing the burka in large numbers is a relatively new phenomenon in the UK. Driven by conservative Muslims.

And Nick, to use Stevie Wonder as an example is facile and does nothing for the discussion.

Seconded.

I view the burqa as a symbol of the oppression of women as is the niqab...but if women wear it willingly as an expression of their commitment to their indoctrination then so be it.

Even the hijab is still annoying to me. The idea from Islam that women should dress 'modestly' is an implied insult to all women who don't. But obviously many women wear it as an expression of faith and see it differently so fair enough.

All things being equal and fair we should all except difference.

What is important is that secularism is protected in law....All those who speak of attacks on Islam should look at Turkey and to a lesser extent America to see what religion does to all political systems when it is allowed to grow unchecked.

Though I don't feel we need to necessarily hinder how people dress.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Apr 2017 1.24pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Apr 17 1.33pm
Originally posted by Brentmiester_General It's just another opportunistic attack on Islam. Live and let live. If they can't do the same, ignore them. This law will never be passed. It would cause more anger from Islam. More attacks and more hatered on both sides. Crap. It just happens to be Islam. The problem with a live and let live mantra is how far you take it. What about Satanists? What about Pedophiles? What about Cannibals? You can't just make a blanket policy because something is religious in origin. The law has to work to uphold a moral standpoint. We the people have to decide where to draw a line.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Apr 17 1.33pm

Originally posted by Brentmiester_General

It's just another opportunistic attack on Islam. Live and let live. If they can't do the same, ignore them. This law will never be passed. It would cause more anger from Islam. More attacks and more hatered on both sides.

Crap. It just happens to be Islam.

The problem with a live and let live mantra is how far you take it.
What about Satanists?
What about Pedophiles?
What about Cannibals?

You can't just make a blanket policy because something is religious in origin. The law has to work to uphold a moral standpoint. We the people have to decide where to draw a line.

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