Ban the koran
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 Stirlingsays  05 Feb 20 1.22pm |
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Originally posted by cardiff eagle
With all due respect, and I may have missed it, i'm not entirely sure what your method is. All I can see you've said is about banning halal meat and circumcision which i'm not entirely sure is the most eloquent of prevention methods! It's one of the methods, but this thread isn't about how to solve the Islamic problem, it focused upon banning the Qu'ran.....which I personally wouldn't do. Originally posted by cardiff eagle
If meat and circumicision was such an issue, then Jews, most of USA (as they get circumcised at birth a lot also) and Vegetarians would be committing terrorist attacks! Seriously .....that's doesn't make any sense. Originally posted by cardiff eagle
In my view (and it just that), education, integration and prevention methods are better at reducing the likelihood of indoctrination. Money has been cut from a lot of these areas (due to labour overspends in the past) and it now needs to be invested at a sensible level to reduce risk going forward. Likewise, strategies such as banning terrorist ideology on social media,working with ISP providers to close websites down, stopping their financial links and increased monitoring of known individuals and individuals at risk would also be more effective.
We have had efforts in all these areas since mass immigration started. You are repeating the multiculturalism lie that was said then.....Fifty fecking years ago....and you're repeating the same BS. I don't think evidence matters to people whose beliefs are based upon emotional wants. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Feb 2020 1.27pm)
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| Stirlingsays 05 Feb 20 1.28pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I'm sorry to break it to you Stirling but I actually live in London and only had my flag as German because I changed it on here for Euro 2016 and could never be arsed to change it back. Well, despite the policies of our political leaders, London is still the English capital...so it qualifies as Europe. Still, as for you being back here, well yeah, I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Feb 2020 1.33pm)
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Feb 20 2.11pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
as I said, I am fully expecting this country's Islamophobia to seriously raise its ugly head now that you guys can't use Brexit as an excuse for everything. But Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. That is what you told us.
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cardiff eagle  05 Feb 20 2.13pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
We have had efforts in all these areas since mass immigration started. You are repeating the multiculturalism lie that was said then.....Fifty fecking years ago....and you're repeating the same BS. I don't think evidence matters to people whose beliefs are based upon emotional wants. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Feb 2020 1.27pm) My point was that banning meat and circumcision is not going to stop terrorism. Apart from that, you still haven't from what I can see suggested how you would tackle the issue?
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| Badger11 Beckenham 05 Feb 20 2.23pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
as I said, I am fully expecting this country's Islamophobia to seriously raise its ugly head now that you guys can't use Brexit as an excuse for everything. I voted for Brexit because I was sick and tired of the EU and our own government using the EU as an excuse for it's failings. As Harry Truman said "the buck stops here". Now that we have left Boris is on the spot if he fails to deliver on issues that the public care about we can now kick his backside down the road and vote for a new government. Brexit was never about rainbows and unicorns but about making our politicians accountable for their actions or inactions. The next battle for me is not Islamophobia but constitutional reform. That is scrapping the House of Lords, replacing the Human Rights charter with a British Bill of Rights and reforming the house of commons to make it fit for the 21st century.
Edited by Badger11 (05 Feb 2020 2.24pm)
One more point |
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| Stirlingsays 05 Feb 20 2.40pm |
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Originally posted by cardiff eagle
My point was that banning meat and circumcision is not going to stop terrorism. Apart from that, you still haven't from what I can see suggested how you would tackle the issue? Certainly your suggestion that we repeat the same failed nonsense that has brought us to this point is nothing but a future of despair. I never said that banning halal meat and circumcision would 'stop terrorism'. It's one tool in the box that reduces the attractiveness of the country to that demographic. It also bans two barbaric and backward practices that should be banned regardless. I've gone over how this could be done in previous threads. Change UK's human rights law to enable the following: Stop the construction of new Mosques and ban Islamic religious schools. Ban halal meat and circumcision. Pay pakistan and Bangladesh to be willing to take 'citizens' that we want to deport from Islamic watch lists. That's a broad outline of the direction we need to move in if Islamic population increase and hence terrorism is going to be tackled. There isn't a chance in hell of it happening though because...essentially we aren't Poland or Hungary who actually monitor and care about demographics.
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 05 Feb 20 3.20pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
The guy stabbed someone with a £3.99 knife covered in plastic. I find it particularly surprising that you, as Irish, see fit to assume that a religion holds all the responsibility for terrorist actions. I guess we should kick out all the Catholics and Protestants just in case that Irish border stuff flares up again hey? that sounds Irishophobic and a little bit racist to me. Question : if the Koran was written yesterday, would it be banned as another type of Hate speech ? against gays, non-believers, women ( especially the types in Rotherham ) , career women, apostates, portrait artists, advocates for monogamy, dogs, and Jews ? Edited by PalazioVecchio (05 Feb 2020 3.33pm)
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Feb 20 8.19pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
The guy stabbed someone with a £3.99 knife covered in plastic. I find it particularly surprising that you, as Irish, see fit to assume that a religion holds all the responsibility for terrorist actions. I guess we should kick out all the Catholics and Protestants just in case that Irish border stuff flares up again hey? I don't remember sectarian violence or IRA/UVF bombs being blamed on mental health issues. There have been a few attacks by Islamic terrorists blamed on mental health. I guess it does raise an interesting question.
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 05 Feb 20 8.37pm |
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you don't actually need to ban the koran, you could just hide it or put it very high up so they can't reach it, don't leave it on the bus or train though because it would get sent to lost property, or you could remove the cover and put another book inside but it would have to be in Arabic, complete rubbish of course, hello everyone
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| georgenorman 06 Feb 20 10.56am |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I find it particularly surprising that you, as Irish, see fit to assume that a religion holds all the responsibility for terrorist actions. I guess we should kick out all the Catholics and Protestants just in case that Irish border stuff flares up again hey? The Irish troubles are essentially the IRA wanting a unified Ireland and their opponents wanting to keep the union with Britain with an underlying, largely historical, religious element. Whereas the current Islamic fundamentalist terrorists openly and clearly state that their motivation is their religion and that they are carrying out their acts as a duty to their religion. The label Islamic Terrorism is entirely appropriate.
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| cardiff eagle 06 Feb 20 12.53pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Certainly your suggestion that we repeat the same failed nonsense that has brought us to this point is nothing but a future of despair. I never said that banning halal meat and circumcision would 'stop terrorism'. It's one tool in the box that reduces the attractiveness of the country to that demographic. It also bans two barbaric and backward practices that should be banned regardless. I've gone over how this could be done in previous threads. Change UK's human rights law to enable the following: Stop the construction of new Mosques and ban Islamic religious schools. Ban halal meat and circumcision. Pay pakistan and Bangladesh to be willing to take 'citizens' that we want to deport from Islamic watch lists. That's a broad outline of the direction we need to move in if Islamic population increase and hence terrorism is going to be tackled. There isn't a chance in hell of it happening though because...essentially we aren't Poland or Hungary who actually monitor and care about demographics.
It's an interesting point of view but for me, falls down on one key thing. You are essentially trying to make the country less appealing to Muslims on the premise that they won't come here and therefore that will prevent terrorist attacks. The key issue here is that the terrorist attacks are all performed by people who are born here and are British. Therefore, your measures won't make the slightest difference. I'd argue that considering this is the case, making the existing people feel more unwelcome will create more of a divide and increase the likelihood of attacks. Equally, your entire premise relies on the assumption that terrorism is inevitable and no amount of education, engagement etc will prevent it. This is where we fundamentally disagree as I believe that with all individuals who have performed terrorist attacks, there would have been several stages where engagement and appropriate help would've prevented them from happening.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Feb 20 1.14pm |
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Originally posted by cardiff eagle
It's an interesting point of view but for me, falls down on one key thing. You are essentially trying to make the country less appealing to Muslims on the premise that they won't come here and therefore that will prevent terrorist attacks. The key issue here is that the terrorist attacks are all performed by people who are born here and are British. Therefore, your measures won't make the slightest difference. I'd argue that considering this is the case, making the existing people feel more unwelcome will create more of a divide and increase the likelihood of attacks. Equally, your entire premise relies on the assumption that terrorism is inevitable and no amount of education, engagement etc will prevent it. This is where we fundamentally disagree as I believe that with all individuals who have performed terrorist attacks, there would have been several stages where engagement and appropriate help would've prevented them from happening. Seriously? Your belief that 'education, engagement' can work comes from a place of zero evidence and has been tried and proven a failure since mass migration started in WW2. The idea that we haven't tried very very hard to integrate is just at odds with what happened. Europe is probably the most welcoming area in the world to foreigners than any other continent.....much to its damage. Asking people to change identities doesn't work. The majority become more attached to them, not less......Anyone who's seen an Irish pub in England or the English in Spain knows that......You can't 'educate' people away from identity. It's common sense that second and third generations are going to be more identitarian not less as the cultural differences between their two cultural inputs are stark....Not relatively minor like say the English and Polish. It doesn't work.....It can only work with filtered success stories and so what you are in affect doing is giving over land and domains to different ethnicities and white flight will result at quicker and quicker rates. That's what actually happens....Your 'integration and education' is meaningless and misguided. Your politics has handed down a poisoned chalice to the next generations. You asked me for solutions.....they aren't perfect and they do result in division.....but that's the point. The future is going to be nothing but that anyway....and the do gooders paved the way to hell because they turned their head away from reality in preference to warm worded falsehoods. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Feb 2020 1.17pm)
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