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October 27 2021 11.57am

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View grumpymort's Profile grumpymort Flag UK/Thailand 26 Aug 21 3.16pm Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

Originally posted by W12

"It is very clear what it means if you cant follow it you unfortunately are not educated enough to understand so really shouldn't even be commenting" - your opening reply is ad hominem - no need for that

"Not all the vaccines are equal if you are going to look into research this needs to be taken into account" - relevance?

"Their is ones which do not use experimental methods (none approved in UK yet)" - There are none approved on the UK - they are all under emergency use authorisation so escape proper process and scrutiny.

"You can find studies done by other parties the problem with a lot of these is the same as the manufacture ones not proper controlled or too short of a period a fair few as well have control groups way to small to be any use" - there are no long term studies by definition as these "vaccines" (Gene therapies) were rushed out. Should this not be an additional reason to be concerned by the numbers of adverse reactions we are potentially seeing?

""Do no harm" was a BS made up saying it has never applied" - do you disagree with this or at least that a there needs to be a specific need to a treatment?

"People have the choice to have the vaccine or not the same with people who choose to smoke or drink alcohol" - I'm talking specifically about kids here who are in no position to give consent


1. The statement was not meant as an insult it was meant as a lot of people are looking at numbers and claiming it shows this or that yet they do not understand what they are reading or even worked in the field to know how it works.

2. It is relevant again a person who understands the subject and has worked in this field knows full well this is very important.

3. Emergency use still means its been approved for that means. (Incorrect it still has to meet a standard and go through some phases)

4. Gene therapy has been used for years you can look these up I am not going to comment on the results and using it for the delivery of this vaccine is new yes but I already stated which is relevant not all of the vaccines use this.

5. Do no harm is not possible you will always harm someone all you can do is treat everybody with the same respect and offer the same level of care no matter what. (It's a money making business curing people doesn't make money)

6. kids do have a choice no one is holding them down forcing them (If you are referring to parents how is it any different to the parents choosing many different aspects of their childs life this is what parents do make a choice and then live with it good or bad)

I was very clear form the beginning I do not agree with the way these vaccines have been rushed etc.

I do believe people who are in poor health and vulnerable it is a very good option to consider but have a look into the different types and if possible go for one that uses the traditional methods.

Other actions are for people to correct lifestyle/diet (This wont happen people dont want to)

Edited by grumpymort (26 Aug 2021 3.23pm)

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 26 Aug 21 5.00pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by W12

This in UK only.

Pfizer

[Link]

AstraZeneca

[Link]

Moderna

[Link]

Brand Unspecified

[Link]

As I proved in an earlier post this only captures less than 10% of the real numbers according to the governments website.

What percentage of the people who "died within 28 days of a positive PCR test" would have died of something else or does that work in only one direction?

You are correct in your last question and rightly some died of covid, some died because of covid being the catalyst and some would have popped anyway.
I will though add that if only 10% report issues these figures uplifted mean roughly 1 in 10 of all jabbed in the UK have had an issue. I know or have spoken to probably 200 double jabbed people and don't recall any offering up what you have listed. Maybe they were just lucky or those 11 million or so we're unlucky. Or the figures are not necessarily true. The 10% only reporting I mean.
What do you think?

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 26 Aug 21 5.05pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by grumpymort


1. The statement was not meant as an insult it was meant as a lot of people are looking at numbers and claiming it shows this or that yet they do not understand what they are reading or even worked in the field to know how it works. - the information I posted is self evident and needs no explanation. I think a lawyer would call it "prima facie". It shows clear evidence of large scale vaccine damage

2. It is relevant again a person who understands the subject and has worked in this field knows full well this is very important. Relevant in what way?

3. Emergency use still means its been approved for that means. (Incorrect it still has to meet a standard and go through some phases) - it means that we are mass vaccinating our entire population with no long erm safety data and complete indemnity for the vaccine manufacturer

4. Gene therapy has been used for years you can look these up I am not going to comment on the results and using it for the delivery of this vaccine is new yes but I already stated which is relevant not all of the vaccines use this. - gene therapy has never been used in a so called vaccine let alone a mass vaccination program. Its been used in very limited specific circumstances on very sick people

5. Do no harm is not possible you will always harm someone all you can do is treat everybody with the same respect and offer the same level of care no matter what. (It's a money making business curing people doesn't make money) - if you know significant numbers of people are being injured and the average person has only 99.7 percent chance of dying from desease why would you even suggest pushing this to anyone other than the likely vulnerable? I agree that the drugs companies have no incentive to heal us so shouldn't their motivation to push vaccines factor into this?

6. kids do have a choice no one is holding them down forcing them (If you are referring to parents how is it any different to the parents choosing many different aspects of their childs life this is what parents do make a choice and then live with it good or bad) - I don't agree that parents or anyone else should be able to assault or murder their children and ignorance is no excuse. Kids are both vulnerable to coercion by teachers, figures in authority, media and peer pressure from other children who have been taught that the unvaccinated are somehow dangerous. They are in no way in a position to make this decision than they are as to decide when to go to bed. More importantly they are at zero risk (less than being run over or drowning for example) and the "vaccine" does not provide any protection from spreading this to others - these is no justification at all - none - zero.

I was very clear form the beginning I do not agree with the way these vaccines have been rushed etc.

I do believe people who are in poor health and vulnerable it is a very good option to consider but have a look into the different types and if possible go for one that uses the traditional methods. Personally I don't believe these MRNa vaccines should be given to anyone but at least adults for the obvious reasons I've already given but at least adults are in a position to take this crap (or even defend themselves from it).

Other actions are for people to correct lifestyle/diet (This wont happen people dont want to) - yes but it's interesting to say the least that despite numerous studies that vitamin's C / D, zinc, Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine and various other treatments (that cost pennies) have been shown to effective, nobody is allowed to discuss this, the latter 2 have been banned and people are getting censored on social media for even discussing this.

Edited by grumpymort (26 Aug 2021 3.23pm)

Edited by W12 (26 Aug 2021 5.06pm)

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 26 Aug 21 5.17pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Edited by W12 (26 Aug 2021 5.06pm)

That's because trump said they work. No body seems to want to praise stuff he said even if proved to be correct and a life saver. David hockney mentioned smokers presenting up to a 30 % less chance catching covid but was shut down without so much of a conversation. Due diligence not carried out as it is definitely a conflict of interest but certainly should have been looked into. At least to poo poo it if not true.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Aug 21 5.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

All the evidence points in one direction. The "rollout" needs to be stopped in it's tracks. No vaccine has ever caused this much damage and we are only seeing the short term effects.

I have a suspicion that there was political pressure for vaccines for the young to be approved.....I mean we even heard the SNP midget make public statements wanting approval.

I'm against it certainly.

 


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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 26 Aug 21 5.26pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst


You are correct in your last question and rightly some died of covid, some died because of covid being the catalyst and some would have popped anyway.
I will though add that if only 10% report issues these figures uplifted mean roughly 1 in 10 of all jabbed in the UK have had an issue. I know or have spoken to probably 200 double jabbed people and don't recall any offering up what you have listed. Maybe they were just lucky or those 11 million or so we're unlucky. Or the figures are not necessarily true. The 10% only reporting I mean.
What do you think?

Pretty much every person I know has been sick this year of something (even if that's just fatigue, headaches etc) and I know several people who have died. This includes people who think their illness was completely unrelated to vaccines(like eye problems) but the nature of this spike protein seems to be from the various reports that it travels around the body from the injection site causing potentially all kinds of damage in the bloodstream, organs, brain etc. You can see the huge variety of potential damage from the detailed reports I posted.

I believe the generation of the spike protein (which is the intended result of the vaccine) is also transmissible which is something that was supposed to be specifically studied in the initial vaccine trials but wasn't (they knew it was a possibility). So you don't need to be vaccinated to suffer from this. There is strong evidence in that huge numbers of women (both vaccinated and otherwise) have had strange/unusual periods e.g. post menopausal women bleeding or very heaving/irregular bleeding.

Interestingly in many instances these vaccines seem to cause the same symptoms as "COVID" (respiratory issues / fever) . Nobody was ill or dying this time last year with no vaccine available so no people jabbed including the vulnerable. People cannot put two and two together so now they are blaming the "unvaccinated" cheered on by the media despite the fact that the vaccine claims to offer no protection from transmission and vaccinated have no less viral load.

 

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View grumpymort's Profile grumpymort Flag UK/Thailand 26 Aug 21 5.55pm Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

the information I posted is self evident and needs no explanation. I think a lawyer would call it "prima facie". It shows clear evidence of large scale vaccine damage


A lawyer looks at facts you have not provided any I already stated what is required prove of causation not association.

Relevant in what way?

If you can't understand this just leave you have no business keep commenting on this you are putting all these vaccines together when they do not even use the same mechanisms

it means that we are mass vaccinating our entire population with no long erm safety data and complete indemnity for the vaccine manufacturer

Correct but its a choice people have not been forced to take them.

gene therapy has never been used in a so called vaccine let alone a mass vaccination program. Its been used in very limited specific circumstances on very sick people

Correct but as already stated you are not correctly educated on this subject not all the vaccines use this method go and do some proper research.


if you know significant numbers of people are being injured and the average person has only 99.7 percent chance of dying from desease why would you even suggest pushing this to anyone other than the likely vulnerable? I agree that the drugs companies have no incentive to heal us so shouldn't their motivation to push vaccines factor into this?


They want people sick not dying this is the cycle of making money this is how the health care system now is.

I don't agree that parents or anyone else should be able to assault or murder their children and ignorance is no excuse. Kids are both vulnerable to coercion by teachers, figures in authority, media and peer pressure from other children who have been taught that the unvaccinated are somehow dangerous. They are in no way in a position to make this decision than they are as to decide when to go to bed. More importantly they are at zero risk (less than being run over or drowning for example) and the "vaccine" does not provide any protection from spreading this to others - these is no justification at all - none - zero.

I was very clear form the beginning I do not agree with the way these vaccines have been rushed etc.

You are now just being stupid

SO you think a 8 year old is going to read all the research and make a choice to have a vaccine or not what about the vaccines which are given to new borns you do not agree with these either

Personally I don't believe these MRNa vaccines should be given to anyone but at least adults for the obvious reasons I've already given but at least adults are in a position to take this crap (or even defend themselves from it).

I agree the mRNA ones shouldn't this is something if you go through the thread I was strongly against but in some situations you have to for some groups of people look at the risk ratio and for the first group that was offered it was correct action.

yes but it's interesting to say the least that despite numerous studies that vitamin's C / D, zinc, Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine and various other treatments (that cost pennies) have been shown to effective, nobody is allowed to discuss this, the latter 2 have been banned and people are getting censored on social media for even discussing this.

I know I was one of them (the trials on the drugs are still taking place so you can not claim they are effective that is the same as what you are moaning about with the vaccines)

 


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View grumpymort's Profile grumpymort Flag UK/Thailand 26 Aug 21 6.07pm Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Pretty much every person I know has been sick this year of something (even if that's just fatigue, headaches etc) and I know several people who have died. This includes people who think their illness was completely unrelated to vaccines(like eye problems) but the nature of this spike protein seems to be from the various reports that it travels around the body from the injection site causing potentially all kinds of damage in the bloodstream, organs, brain etc. You can see the huge variety of potential damage from the detailed reports I posted.

I believe the generation of the spike protein (which is the intended result of the vaccine) is also transmissible which is something that was supposed to be specifically studied in the initial vaccine trials but wasn't (they knew it was a possibility). So you don't need to be vaccinated to suffer from this. There is strong evidence in that huge numbers of women (both vaccinated and otherwise) have had strange/unusual periods e.g. post menopausal women bleeding or very heaving/irregular bleeding.

Interestingly in many instances these vaccines seem to cause the same symptoms as "COVID" (respiratory issues / fever) . Nobody was ill or dying this time last year with no vaccine available so no people jabbed including the vulnerable. People cannot put two and two together so now they are blaming the "unvaccinated" cheered on by the media despite the fact that the vaccine claims to offer no protection from transmission and vaccinated have no less viral load.


Again incorrect and misinformation

Again prove causation you cant you are creating associations this is not science.

You need to step away you do not understand this subject and are just listening to other people who are twisting little bits of information plus a lot of them have no clue what they are even talking about

I am not the best at explaining everything in simple terms but I worked in this field for decades before retiring being involved in multi pandemics in Asia.

I recommend this guy to normal people he is very good at explaining/ breaking it all down in as simple of a way possible all of what he states is backed up by the available literature [Link]

So much misinformation out their or people who just do not understand what they are looking at so they try to interrupt it in their understand which is not correct a researcher does not work the same as even a doctor let alone normal joe public.

 


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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 26 Aug 21 9.19pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by grumpymort


Again incorrect and misinformation

Again prove causation you cant you are creating associations this is not science.

You need to step away you do not understand this subject and are just listening to other people who are twisting little bits of information plus a lot of them have no clue what they are even talking about

I am not the best at explaining everything in simple terms but I worked in this field for decades before retiring being involved in multi pandemics in Asia.

I recommend this guy to normal people he is very good at explaining/ breaking it all down in as simple of a way possible all of what he states is backed up by the available literature [Link]

So much misinformation out their or people who just do not understand what they are looking at so they try to interrupt it in their understand which is not correct a researcher does not work the same as even a doctor let alone normal joe public.

Because “experts”?

What about these experts? What doctors and experts are you going like to believe or are all these doctors “swivel eyed loons”?

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

Where is the misinformation coming from?

Follow the money.

By the way, it’s the up to the manufacturers to prove these treatments are safe and the regulators to ensure this - not me.


 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 26 Aug 21 10.02pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

That's because trump said they work. No body seems to want to praise stuff he said even if proved to be correct and a life saver. David hockney mentioned smokers presenting up to a 30 % less chance catching covid but was shut down without so much of a conversation. Due diligence not carried out as it is definitely a conflict of interest but certainly should have been looked into. At least to poo poo it if not true.

Good point. I highlighted previously that while Trump is rightfully castigated on some fronts, he certainly wasn't and isn't anti vax or anti treatment as far at covid is concerned. In fact he even gets booed by (some of) his own supporters who perceive him to be.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 26 Aug 21 10.12pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

My own uneducated personal view as a volunteer who has probably seen between 10-15k patients I have yet to see anyone have a reaction to the vaccine, normally it's unrelated.

Some people faint because they are scared of needles, I had one on Saturday, some because they are dehydrated and haven't eaten normally meaning they were on the piss the night before, low blood sugar is another one.


The hardcore anti vax types were typically anti lockdown too, so their non-answer to the situation would've ramped up the body count massively.

I think it's perfectly fine to have been anti lockdown after the first one, but not in conjunction with not encouraging at least the most vulnerable to take up a vaccine proved to save countless lives.

 

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View grumpymort's Profile grumpymort Flag UK/Thailand 27 Aug 21 1.04am Send a Private Message to grumpymort Add grumpymort as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Because “experts”?

What about these experts? What doctors and experts are you going like to believe or are all these doctors “swivel eyed loons”?

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

Where is the misinformation coming from?

Follow the money.

By the way, it’s the up to the manufacturers to prove these treatments are safe and the regulators to ensure this - not me.



Still waiting for evidence of causation you have no stance without it.

What is your point this is a useless post.

As I said before when you get educated in the subject you will understand it currently you are like most normal people rambling on about this person or that person yet you have no clue what anybody is even saying.

If I posted up 3 random published papers I bet you wouldn't even have a clue what they are about or if they are even valid or not.

Misinformation is coming from many parties both sides if it is not backed up by any published literature its not valid science end of.

By the way those claimed experts you mention I suggest you do your research first before posting claims people are experts and see what their backgrounds really are.

Should we be using the likes of mRNA vaccines for the masses no is it worth the risk for the groups which are at such a high risk without it will likely die yes if they choose it.

I suggest you look up Novavax (NVX-CoV2373) which is a covid-19 vaccine and is the only one I have recommended to people that are worried and want to reduce the risk of issues if they do become infected.

 


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