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View adelaar's Profile adelaar Flag Edgware 23 Feb 21 1.15pm Send a Private Message to adelaar Add adelaar as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

We usually play with more freedom once weíve got to safety and the opposition have little to play for or arenít interested. I think it gives a false league position of 11th. Problem this season is weíre playing some better teams in our run in, but thereís still some achievable points there, and possibly more so without any pressure. (Depends of course on how players who donít want to stay or suspect or know theyíre not wanted decide to perform)


Is this the same freedom that caused us to lose 7 games in a row at the back end of last season, after beating Bournemouth and achieving 'safety'?

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 23 Feb 21 1.15pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by MonsterMunch

Surpised it took you this long. If you are content with that performance yesterday, and this season in general then I think the distance is too great for any middle ground for the conversation. Credit where credit is due Roy got the result. But for me that type of performance is totally unacceptable. We were lucky, we all know it. Lets not dress it up that it suddenly vindicates Roys approach to the game of football. However he has it appears been able to fire up the lads to put in a performance. Shape and putting their bodies on the line wise they gave everything.

I'm not expecting you to read everything I post, but if you did you would know that I share the view about the quality of football on offer under Hodgson.

As for being lucky, I don't think so. Brighton are habitual creators and missers of chances. We've won the same number of games at the Amex since the start of 2020 as they have !

 


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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 23 Feb 21 1.20pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Just goes to prove we've got the players but not the manager.

It goes to prove that the manager is capable of getting that performance out of his players, getting their commitment after the lame performances in the previous two games.

 


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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 23 Feb 21 1.20pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by adelaar


Is this the same freedom that caused us to lose 7 games in a row at the back end of last season, after beating Bournemouth and achieving 'safety'?

Last season was a bit different after having their feet up for a few months between achieving safety and then getting back up for it for another 7 matches. Iím not excusing them at all btw, but there was a difference, plus the empty stadiums when youíre already safe and have known you are for a few months.

 


COYP

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 23 Feb 21 1.27pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

This may be true, but I donít think I can return as a season ticket holder knowing that Iím going to endure this over and over again.

If weíre at a new 3 year FFP period this summer, and Iíve seen a few other clubs come out of these, then maybe thatíll change things, and/or Roy leaves, the tedium of nothing to get excited about might change.

But now it appears we owe the Americans or shareholders £50 million before doing any business this summer. Half of that is apparently because of Covid. Other teams will have lost revenue same as us, but it will be more of their % revenue than us, although Iím not sure regarding relegation candidates.

Weíre undoubtedly looking to be not as bad as 3 teams in the league, whether that he because theyíre newcomers, run out of funds or in the latter stages of their 3 year FFP cycles, and I accept that will happen with us at some point, regardless of how many seasons weíve been in the league. But what I canít accept forever, and watching it all at home because of Covid makes you realise this, is seeing us have a few shots on goal every month or two. Maybe just touches in the opposition box. I remember Parish quoting Ďíwe canít rely on the bounce of the ball in the opposition box to get resultsíí. Well Iím waiting to see what significant changes happen because it needs to be the manager or the players or both. Ideally the ownership, but they can change the management and/or players and not the other way round as we know.

For me this is the absolute heart and crux of the matter.

I think you can split football into two stratas: Anti football and good football. I don't buy the idea that we could do something slightly, but not fundamentally different and be any better for it.

The difference between us, Burnley, Pulis Stoke, Newcastle, Allardyce's sides etc is just shades of grey. Its anti-football. Brighton, Norwich, Southampton, Fulham etc play differently to each other, but they are all very much on the other side of the divide from us. They play good football.

As I've said many times, I believe the available evidence shows the better football a club our size plays, the greater the chance of losing and ultimately of relegation, whilst the best bet for staying up is to play anti-football. The only downside is that you have to watch it. And by 'watch' I mean endure. Tolerate. Suffer. Which, to my mind, we have.

It's totally new experience for us as Palace fans. What we are watching is, to my mind, not incompetence, or inadequacy, or hope, or momentum, or uncertainty - all the things I have associated with Palace for decades of watching them. We are watching, for the first time, dull stability, predictability, a little cynicism perhaps, a cold professionalism. The former is full of emotion, the latter devoid of it.

As I've said before, this must be how Coventry fans felt for all those years. It raises exactly the big question you cite.

I think Parish has learnt all of this too. As a fan I'm sure he wants better football as much as us, but as the person responsible for the club he has to use his head as much as his heart.

On one hand, if he gambles and ditches the anti-football, we could go down. Will the new stand be viable then? Will we get the best youngsters for the academy? Will he have failed to extract the maximum benefit and legacy for future generations from this unprecedented time in the sun? I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.

Ultimately though, stick with the anti-football any longer and what is it all for? It's like saving your pennies all your life and never having any fun. Why even develop the academy and build a stand, and keep on keeping on if the only way we can play is like we have under Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce and Hodgson?

At some point Parish must envisage us being worth watching, and the clubs plan is to hang on in there for long enough to grow, then go again in a different form. Are we there yet? I doubt it, but can we wait any longer? I doubt that too.

My heart sings a little at the idea of Howe or Cooper, for all their obvious faults, whilst it sinks a little at the idea of Roy, or Dyche for the same reasons as you. Does that make a new approach the right one though?


Edited by TheBigToePunt (23 Feb 2021 1.31pm)

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 23 Feb 21 1.28pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Far from shabby? Two touches in the opposition box last night. 3-0 home defeat against Burnley last week, 3-0 loss to 10 man Villa, 7-0 vs Liverpool! 1 point from 8 games in the run in at the end of last. What planet are you on?

Each season, Woy has finished in a lower position in the league, with him at the helm the best period in our history has ended by a greedy old b****** who's sole aim is to rob the club of £4.5m each year.

His negative set up will avoid relegation, but when you look at the other candidates avoiding relegation shouldn't be an issue.

We've got 13 games left, 9 of them are against sides in the top 10. If you think setting up like that every week will work then you truly don't know anything about sport.

You're tedious and tiresome post never identify anything he is doing right with the team to justify him keeping his huge salary. You clearly just identify with an old talentless man who's failed at life.

Oh come on - get a grip on what you write.

Neither you or I truly know what Hodgson's salary is. But if it is £4.5m pa., then he's earning it. And the club are clearly happy to pay it. How's is that '' robbing the club '' ?

Failed in life has he - I suspect his achievements comfortably outweigh yours. Not the least being able ( in your eyes ) to con Palace out of that £4.5m a year !

 


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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 23 Feb 21 1.31pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

to be fair I may just have missed it but I donít think anyone has demanded this, free flowing attacking football is an extreme of the spectrum and we are certainly on the other end of it.

This is exactly what I was talking about the other day. Those backing Roy to the hilt seem to think that we are asking for a revolution and a totally new way of playing. This couldnít be further from the truth. We are looking for gradual improvement and all we are seeing is the side getting worse. The signs have been there for the last two seasons and Iím really not sure why some think there are no issues.

We were not playing like this in the first 18 months of Royís tenure and we will not stay in this league if we have the same team (minus Zaha) and the same manager next season.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 23 Feb 21 2.09pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

This is exactly what I was talking about the other day. Those backing Roy to the hilt seem to think that we are asking for a revolution and a totally new way of playing. This couldnít be further from the truth. We are looking for gradual improvement and all we are seeing is the side getting worse. The signs have been there for the last two seasons and Iím really not sure why some think there are no issues.

We were not playing like this in the first 18 months of Royís tenure and we will not stay in this league if we have the same team (minus Zaha) and the same manager next season.

I agree with this and I would put this to Bigtoepunt, who I have a lot of time for. I could usually accept Royball because of the results. Now I find it difficult to watch to unwatchable regardless of the scores. Last night was different because of the rivalry and the importance of this stage of the season and the league table. This season is different and it hasnít bothered me if Iíve missed any matches or lost concentration or interest watching any of them. Itís the same thing over and over apart from the brief highlights.

 


COYP

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Feb 21 2.23pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I agree with this and I would put this to Bigtoepunt, who I have a lot of time for. I could usually accept Royball because of the results. Now I find it difficult to watch to unwatchable regardless of the scores. Last night was different because of the rivalry and the importance of this stage of the season and the league table. This season is different and it hasnít bothered me if Iíve missed any matches or lost concentration or interest watching any of them. Itís the same thing over and over apart from the brief highlights.

I'm trying to remember the year we were Crystal Palace Nil, with Armstrong up front. That was the last time I was unable to watch league matches anymore... Until this season. Funnily enough, our points tally is fine, we've scored some goals. It's the way we just can't pass, can't run, do nothing and totally fall apart every second game that is just so excruciating to watch. I'm not looking forward to Fulham, particularly if they watched last night. They will fancy the three points. I can't fault the team for effort last night, but we are still inept. Saved by clinical strikes - which seems so unbelievable that it's basically funny.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 23 Feb 21 2.39pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I agree with this and I would put this to Bigtoepunt, who I have a lot of time for. I could usually accept Royball because of the results. Now I find it difficult to watch to unwatchable regardless of the scores. Last night was different because of the rivalry and the importance of this stage of the season and the league table. This season is different and it hasnít bothered me if Iíve missed any matches or lost concentration or interest watching any of them. Itís the same thing over and over apart from the brief highlights.

Totally get it Rudi.

At the same time, when you say the results made Royball tolerable before now, we have a record points total for this stage of the season apparently. I have to say I haven't checked that myself, but we are certainly in the usual part of the table, so I'm not sure the results (or relative points total anyway) have gotten noticeably worse.

I think what might have changed is the number of shockers we have churned out within the defeats we have had, Burnley being the most recent but not the worst or only.

Academic question really, but it does go to the discussion about what we can reliably be expected to pay to watch: If you could be assured that next season you'd see the best of Royball in terms of performances (so basically the same emphasis on shape and risk-avoidance, with no more wins but with less cave-ins), would you take that? Or have you had enough of watching this anyway?

I do wonder if in fact Roy is feeling the brunt not only of the increased number of shockers, and not only of his own dour approach, but also the cumulative effect of us watching such poor football for so many years under all those different managers. That would be a fair complaint if so, but not necessarily a fair criticism of Hodgson.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 23 Feb 21 2.43pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

For me this is the absolute heart and crux of the matter.

I think you can split football into two stratas: Anti football and good football. I don't buy the idea that we could do something slightly, but not fundamentally different and be any better for it.

The difference between us, Burnley, Pulis Stoke, Newcastle, Allardyce's sides etc is just shades of grey. Its anti-football. Brighton, Norwich, Southampton, Fulham etc play differently to each other, but they are all very much on the other side of the divide from us. They play good football.

As I've said many times, I believe the available evidence shows the better football a club our size plays, the greater the chance of losing and ultimately of relegation, whilst the best bet for staying up is to play anti-football. The only downside is that you have to watch it. And by 'watch' I mean endure. Tolerate. Suffer. Which, to my mind, we have.

It's totally new experience for us as Palace fans. What we are watching is, to my mind, not incompetence, or inadequacy, or hope, or momentum, or uncertainty - all the things I have associated with Palace for decades of watching them. We are watching, for the first time, dull stability, predictability, a little cynicism perhaps, a cold professionalism. The former is full of emotion, the latter devoid of it.

As I've said before, this must be how Coventry fans felt for all those years. It raises exactly the big question you cite.

I think Parish has learnt all of this too. As a fan I'm sure he wants better football as much as us, but as the person responsible for the club he has to use his head as much as his heart.

On one hand, if he gambles and ditches the anti-football, we could go down. Will the new stand be viable then? Will we get the best youngsters for the academy? Will he have failed to extract the maximum benefit and legacy for future generations from this unprecedented time in the sun? I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.

Ultimately though, stick with the anti-football any longer and what is it all for? It's like saving your pennies all your life and never having any fun. Why even develop the academy and build a stand, and keep on keeping on if the only way we can play is like we have under Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce and Hodgson?

At some point Parish must envisage us being worth watching, and the clubs plan is to hang on in there for long enough to grow, then go again in a different form. Are we there yet? I doubt it, but can we wait any longer? I doubt that too.

My heart sings a little at the idea of Howe or Cooper, for all their obvious faults, whilst it sinks a little at the idea of Roy, or Dyche for the same reasons as you. Does that make a new approach the right one though?


Edited by TheBigToePunt (23 Feb 2021 1.31pm)

If Parish was totally honest with his desire to grow the club and attract new fans to fill his new stadium he would appreciate that playing a really piss poor version of anti-football is not the way to go. Seriously, what prospective young fan wants to go and watch their team pack their own penalty area for 90 minutes? If this is a necessary step along the way to playing a slighty more refined version of anti-football then so be it, however, what is currently being served up is the lowest common denominator type of football and I was rather hoping that after 8 seasons we might have started to approach games with a bit more positivity, whilst keeping solid defensive shape.
The PL this season is particularly weak, and we are only four points off eighth place: do they have the belief to go for it?

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 23 Feb 21 2.44pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

For me this is the absolute heart and crux of the matter.

I think you can split football into two stratas: Anti football and good football. I don't buy the idea that we could do something slightly, but not fundamentally different and be any better for it.

The difference between us, Burnley, Pulis Stoke, Newcastle, Allardyce's sides etc is just shades of grey. Its anti-football. Brighton, Norwich, Southampton, Fulham etc play differently to each other, but they are all very much on the other side of the divide from us. They play good football.

As I've said many times, I believe the available evidence shows the better football a club our size plays, the greater the chance of losing and ultimately of relegation, whilst the best bet for staying up is to play anti-football. The only downside is that you have to watch it. And by 'watch' I mean endure. Tolerate. Suffer. Which, to my mind, we have.

It's totally new experience for us as Palace fans. What we are watching is, to my mind, not incompetence, or inadequacy, or hope, or momentum, or uncertainty - all the things I have associated with Palace for decades of watching them. We are watching, for the first time, dull stability, predictability, a little cynicism perhaps, a cold professionalism. The former is full of emotion, the latter devoid of it.

As I've said before, this must be how Coventry fans felt for all those years. It raises exactly the big question you cite.

I think Parish has learnt all of this too. As a fan I'm sure he wants better football as much as us, but as the person responsible for the club he has to use his head as much as his heart.

On one hand, if he gambles and ditches the anti-football, we could go down. Will the new stand be viable then? Will we get the best youngsters for the academy? Will he have failed to extract the maximum benefit and legacy for future generations from this unprecedented time in the sun? I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.

Ultimately though, stick with the anti-football any longer and what is it all for? It's like saving your pennies all your life and never having any fun. Why even develop the academy and build a stand, and keep on keeping on if the only way we can play is like we have under Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce and Hodgson?

At some point Parish must envisage us being worth watching, and the clubs plan is to hang on in there for long enough to grow, then go again in a different form. Are we there yet? I doubt it, but can we wait any longer? I doubt that too.

My heart sings a little at the idea of Howe or Cooper, for all their obvious faults, whilst it sinks a little at the idea of Roy, or Dyche for the same reasons as you. Does that make a new approach the right one though?


Edited by TheBigToePunt (23 Feb 2021 1.31pm)

Parish has said we were about 10% there in 2010 and we are about 40% now.

He is not saying the move to foxy football is any time soon. Despite the clamour for something better, he and the board are not that naÔve.

 

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