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March 9 2021 1.58am

roy out

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 23 Feb 21 2.53pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

If Parish was totally honest with his desire to grow the club and attract new fans to fill his new stadium he would appreciate that playing a really piss poor version of anti-football is not the way to go. Seriously, what prospective young fan wants to go and watch their team pack their own penalty area for 90 minutes? If this is a necessary step along the way to playing a slighty more refined version of anti-football then so be it, however, what is currently being served up is the lowest common denominator type of football and I was rather hoping that after 8 seasons we might have started to approach games with a bit more positivity, whilst keeping solid defensive shape.
The PL this season is particularly weak, and we are only four points off eighth place: do they have the belief to go for it?

The flip side is:

Brand of football aside, who is going to come and watch us in the Championship? The attendances suggest a lot more people will sit through anti-football in the top flight than decent stuff in the league below.

Having the belief to go for a top ten (or eight) finish is of course part of it, but I think it pales next to whether they have the quality.

 

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View spartakev2's Profile spartakev2 Flag Anerley 23 Feb 21 3.00pm Send a Private Message to spartakev2 Add spartakev2 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

It goes to prove that the manager is capable of getting that performance out of his players, getting their commitment after the lame performances in the previous two games.

Not necessarily. If he did, he should have done the same in the last 2 games. My guess is players like Dann and Ward 'explained' to the team what this game means to the fans.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 23 Feb 21 3.02pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

I am in the Hodgson out camp.
He is a nice man - I have met him - and Ray Lewington.
Lovely guys and a wealth of football knowledge and between them they have either played/managed/assisted at the highest level in the world and to that extent we are lucky to have - or have had them - at our Club.
However - these performances cannot go on.
Yes - there is a fine balance to survival but you can be difficult to beat and do it better than last night as well as many other performances over the last year or so.
Pulis and Allardyce both proved that - I enjoyed those periods way better than this to be honest.
It was way prettier than last night that's for sure.
I will not attend again under this management - I am not prepared to endure the travel. traffic and so on for that crap - sorry.
Would I prefer we played in the Prem - yes of course - but honestly - not at any price - and if last night is the price then I would prefer to watch my football in a lower league.
I am happy we won but embarrassed at the same time.
I have played in games like that and they are great for the Team but for anyone watching - jeez - just dross.
Worse than that we are already ruining the likes of Eze and that is unforgiveable.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag Kent 23 Feb 21 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Totally get it Rudi.

At the same time, when you say the results made Royball tolerable before now, we have a record points total for this stage of the season apparently. I have to say I haven't checked that myself, but we are certainly in the usual part of the table, so I'm not sure the results (or relative points total anyway) have gotten noticeably worse.

I think what might have changed is the number of shockers we have churned out within the defeats we have had, Burnley being the most recent but not the worst or only.

Academic question really, but it does go to the discussion about what we can reliably be expected to pay to watch: If you could be assured that next season you'd see the best of Royball in terms of performances (so basically the same emphasis on shape and risk-avoidance, with no more wins but with less cave-ins), would you take that? Or have you had enough of watching this anyway?

I do wonder if in fact Roy is feeling the brunt not only of the increased number of shockers, and not only of his own dour approach, but also the cumulative effect of us watching such poor football for so many years under all those different managers. That would be a fair complaint if so, but not necessarily a fair criticism of Hodgson.

I would not be averse to this.

Despite my comments on here of late, I was the 'Roy-in' person getting all the flak amongst my matchday clique for the first couple of years.

I don't mind sitting quite defensively and playing on the counter attack, I am quite accustom to this with Palace and I'd like to think realistic of what we could expect and what I did like about the Roy early years is that sometimes that plan worked and happy days, some days it did not and c'est la vie - but you knew what to expect from the team and invariably saw anything other than BAU.

My concern of late has been that is has not been working so well for us and we've seen a few number of 'cave ins' as you say but more to the point games we are not even competitive in, that's hard to take. When Royball previously worked it was worthy of a villainous cackle but more recently it has looked more like dumb luck if anything, last night being a prime example.

Of course I would like to see a more 'progressive' style of football but I don't think that is on the cards. We need to improve our squad however we move forward that is surely unquestionable but the last year or so, in spite of being OK on paper, has been worrying for me in terms of performances with us looking unstable at the back, uninformed going forward with less and less surety about what we to expect from the team.

At our worst we've been awful and there has been something uneasy about most our wins and to take football to its most purest form for me, I rarely look forward to our games, which I had always done previously including with Roy.

 


Here's to you the famous red and blue.....

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View Brinscalleagle2's Profile Brinscalleagle2 Flag Brinscall 23 Feb 21 3.20pm Send a Private Message to Brinscalleagle2 Add Brinscalleagle2 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

For me this is the absolute heart and crux of the matter.

I think you can split football into two stratas: Anti football and good football. I don't buy the idea that we could do something slightly, but not fundamentally different and be any better for it.

The difference between us, Burnley, Pulis Stoke, Newcastle, Allardyce's sides etc is just shades of grey. Its anti-football. Brighton, Norwich, Southampton, Fulham etc play differently to each other, but they are all very much on the other side of the divide from us. They play good football.

As I've said many times, I believe the available evidence shows the better football a club our size plays, the greater the chance of losing and ultimately of relegation, whilst the best bet for staying up is to play anti-football. The only downside is that you have to watch it. And by 'watch' I mean endure. Tolerate. Suffer. Which, to my mind, we have.

It's totally new experience for us as Palace fans. What we are watching is, to my mind, not incompetence, or inadequacy, or hope, or momentum, or uncertainty - all the things I have associated with Palace for decades of watching them. We are watching, for the first time, dull stability, predictability, a little cynicism perhaps, a cold professionalism. The former is full of emotion, the latter devoid of it.

As I've said before, this must be how Coventry fans felt for all those years. It raises exactly the big question you cite.

I think Parish has learnt all of this too. As a fan I'm sure he wants better football as much as us, but as the person responsible for the club he has to use his head as much as his heart.

On one hand, if he gambles and ditches the anti-football, we could go down. Will the new stand be viable then? Will we get the best youngsters for the academy? Will he have failed to extract the maximum benefit and legacy for future generations from this unprecedented time in the sun? I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.

Ultimately though, stick with the anti-football any longer and what is it all for? It's like saving your pennies all your life and never having any fun. Why even develop the academy and build a stand, and keep on keeping on if the only way we can play is like we have under Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce and Hodgson?

At some point Parish must envisage us being worth watching, and the clubs plan is to hang on in there for long enough to grow, then go again in a different form. Are we there yet? I doubt it, but can we wait any longer? I doubt that too.

My heart sings a little at the idea of Howe or Cooper, for all their obvious faults, whilst it sinks a little at the idea of Roy, or Dyche for the same reasons as you. Does that make a new approach the right one though?


Edited by TheBigToePunt (23 Feb 2021 1.31pm)

I agree with your summation. As we all know we are at a crossroads, not like the time when we tried Frank the Dutchman because at that time we had younger players with more ambition and energy. This time we have to change players. It would seam to me that we first need to decide on a manager and his playing style. If the powers that be want to play more expansive football they will need to change the manager and have a rather large transfer budget to bring in players capable of playing the new way and capable of winning enough games to stay in the league . I f they want a more gradual change then they can keep Roy or attempt to bring in someone like Dyche this way they will not need such a drastic change and will be less expensive. I think the powers that be want to remain in the league and although this is a great time to bring about a marked change in style they are too risk adverse to bring in the likes of a Howe and a whole raft of new players. I fear the fans wishes of open expansive football without being relegated is unlikely to be seen at Selhurst in the near future. The best we can hope for is an influx of younger players which in itself will bring more energy to the play perhaps along with a younger manager of the Dyche mould. Either way the next couple of seasons are going to be interesting.COYP

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 23 Feb 21 3.22pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

For me this is the absolute heart and crux of the matter.

I think you can split football into two stratas: Anti football and good football. I don't buy the idea that we could do something slightly, but not fundamentally different and be any better for it.


Edited by TheBigToePunt (23 Feb 2021 1.31pm)

I'm not sure if I buy that. I mean look at West Ham this season. Pragmatic manager, who has given the cold shoulder to most of their flair players, got some old bruisers down the spine and plays pretty direct, but are flying, and I doubt any West Ham fans would be complaining about the style.

They've benefitted IMO though by a lot of luck in not having serious injuries to key players. We on the other hand have been ridiculously unlucky with injuries in every season Roy has been here. It seems there isn't a month where half our squad isn't on the treatment table.

I also think we did try and play more progressively this season by having two up top and buying Eze and the Bat. We took a risk in being lighter in the middle and having someone who doesn't track back, but it's left us so open that we've been battered regularly in games. We played 3 in the middle yesterday and looked a lot more solid, certainly first half.

I'm on the fence with Roy, but I would like to see what he could do in a season if half our team wasn't crocked. If we could put out a regular 11 for the majority of the season I think we could push for Europe, but with this squad, it's a fantasy to think some of them could play more than two games in a row!

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 23 Feb 21 3.46pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

Oh come on - get a grip on what you write.

Neither you or I truly know what Hodgson's salary is. But if it is 4.5m pa., then he's earning it. And the club are clearly happy to pay it. How's is that '' robbing the club '' ?

Failed in life has he - I suspect his achievements comfortably outweigh yours. Not the least being able ( in your eyes ) to con Palace out of that 4.5m a year !

Haha. When you put in in monetary terms I'm happy to admit you've got me banged to rights.

His genius does lie in how he's managed to accrue such a massive amount of wealth with such average ability.

He probably gets on well with Phil Alexander. Another one who's seemingly had a fraudulent career. Two administrations and still employed.

Anyway. 9 out of 13 remaining games are against the to 10. We'll come 15 this season and have another painful run in. Old Roy will do a better job than both Potter and Bruce. Not much to write home about.

If he wants to leave on a high then he should jump ship now, we've got Liverpool at home on the last day.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 23 Feb 21 4.05pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

I'm not sure if I buy that. I mean look at West Ham this season. Pragmatic manager, who has given the cold shoulder to most of their flair players, got some old bruisers down the spine and plays pretty direct, but are flying, and I doubt any West Ham fans would be complaining about the style.

They've benefitted IMO though by a lot of luck in not having serious injuries to key players. We on the other hand have been ridiculously unlucky with injuries in every season Roy has been here. It seems there isn't a month where half our squad isn't on the treatment table.

I also think we did try and play more progressively this season by having two up top and buying Eze and the Bat. We took a risk in being lighter in the middle and having someone who doesn't track back, but it's left us so open that we've been battered regularly in games. We played 3 in the middle yesterday and looked a lot more solid, certainly first half.

I'm on the fence with Roy, but I would like to see what he could do in a season if half our team wasn't crocked. If we could put out a regular 11 for the majority of the season I think we could push for Europe, but with this squad, it's a fantasy to think some of them could play more than two games in a row!

There is a huge amount to be said for seeing what Roy can do with everyone fit (or better players available, same thing really), and I agree that he hasn't had that.

Even if we didn't get better players than this lot, I accept there might be a bit more that can be done within the envelope of 'anti-football' than we are doing at present, but not much. I reckon that if we had a different conservative coach then, even if he made some improvements without making major changes, given time the same complaints would arise. Allardyce and Pulis didn't stick around long enough for us to test that here, but we know from Stoke, Middlesbrough, Newcastle, Everton and West Ham that both always end up facing the same criticism from their own fans as Roy gets from ours. I think anti-football, regardless of its brand, is much of a muchness in the end.

Moyes West Ham team last year (and in his first time at the club) were very dour, hence West Ham letting him leave and the discontent of their fans when he returned.

This year they have changed style rather than refined it I think. That's a difficult thing for many clubs to do once they get set in a certain way of playing, but West Ham have are much more of a pressing side now I think, much more on the front foot. When he fist came back, Moyes spoke at length about needing to get not necessarily better players in, but certainly more athletic ones so they could break faster but also press, which they haven't had the players to do in years. His logic was that you only need two or three who aren't up to it and you just can't play that way. He obviously had the plan in mind to make the change in style, and the club bought Soucek who is brilliant, and Coufal, and Benerahma, but as you say, it's more who he been able to leave out that has made the change possible I think. Lanzini was highly rated but doesn't get a game now, Fornals plays sometimes but is now replaced by Lingard. Anderson was massively expensive but Moyes binned him, Yarmolenko and Haller too.

I'd put West Ham in the category of having changed their ways more than a subtle evolution, and they could only do that once they had the players in every position to do it.

Could we do that? Apparently the Telegraph thinks we are only retaining four of the out of contracts, will buy four new players, and loan two. WHio exactly, and what style that might facilitate is not speculated upon!

 

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View Mwncisee's Profile Mwncisee Flag Middlesbrough 23 Feb 21 4.41pm Send a Private Message to Mwncisee Add Mwncisee as a friend

I have been a supporter of Roy. I think there has been a lack of understanding as to all the subtle nuances that are required and done to make a successful formation and style of play etc. I am pleased and respect completely the way Roy has helped stabilised our club. I accept the realities that wanting to play more attractive open expansive football, the list of clubs that have bowed to the fans desires to do this and then when the realities of what can happen the saying `be careful of what you wish for` rings incredibly true. Stoke, Coventry etc etc, the list goes on.

I have always felt there would `feel` the right time for change and it should be a managed change and not a forced `knee-jerk` reactionary one. Last night was the first match I really felt the planets are aligning for this change. Yes we won against our rivals but I think we can all agree we really dodged a bullet and 99% of the time if that game was replayed in that way we would have been staring at a lacklustre defeat.

Large number of the older, higher wage squad coming to the end of their contracts, a manager who's contract is expiring, a prolonged period of a good portion of the fan base voicing displeasure over the style of play. Of course the owners and club management know of this and I think we will see some response come the summer. There will be good arguments made for and against if that is done with a one year extension to Roy's contract for us to beginning to evolve the style of football and personnel with the one foot in one foot out approach that if it goes wrong we can revert back to `safe mode` or if it is the bolder `all in` approach that may come with a new manager.

Although I'm not too convinced on Howe I think him being available after a break from the game will make him an appealing proposition FdB MkII with the hope we have learnt from those mistakes. If that happens I really do hope the fan base can show Roy the respect he has deserved and be thankful and give him a fitting send off

Edited by Mwncisee (23 Feb 2021 4.42pm)

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Sutton Coldfield 23 Feb 21 4.49pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Our lack of speed at the back and in midfield dictate the limits of what we can do. We aren't able to press the opponents in the same way as many of the teams in our league, nor can we afford to play a high line because the balls over the top would destroy us.

I think that to be fair to Hodgson, these limitations allied to his natural cautious approach dictate how he can set us up. Each year our players have got slower and slower and so we find ourselves defending deeper and deeper. This is not going to change until we get some younger, quicker players in those areas.

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 23 Feb 21 5.02pm Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

Having analysed the previous 300 pages in some detail the conclusion is inconclusive.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag Kent 23 Feb 21 5.03pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

Having analysed the previous 300 pages in some detail the conclusion is inconclusive.

Are you sure? Read it again!

 


Here's to you the famous red and blue.....

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