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View Omph's Profile Omph Flag Liverpool 26 Mar 22 2.08am Send a Private Message to Omph Add Omph as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, let me assure you, Mitt Romney won't be the leader of the GOP nor president.

In terms of politics in the last sixty years we have had mostly conservative governments. The majority of them were far more to the right than your views. I would have agreed with most of their politics up to Cameron.

However, what the majority want and what they actually get in political representation is something else. For most of last century the public wanted capital punishment yet none of its elected parties would pass it...they wanted Brexit, but were denied a vote for decades and only given one out of desperation...they have always wanted lower immigration but none of the parties have lowered it....increased it in fact and then lied to them about reducing it......I could go on but I'm getting tired.

So forgive me for observing that, in terms of whose politics has been traditionally more popular, you are talking your usual deluded nonsense.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Mar 2022 11.12pm)

Why let facts interfere with your prejudices

[Link]

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Mar 22 2.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Omph

Why let facts interfere with your prejudices

[Link]

Did you even read your own article?

It shows that a few years after joining the EU the majority wanted to leave.

Brexit happened for a reason.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 26 Mar 22 7.16am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, let me assure you, Mitt Romney won't be the leader of the GOP nor president.

In terms of politics in the last sixty years we have had mostly conservative governments. The majority of them were far more to the right than your views. I would have agreed with most of their politics up to Cameron.

However, what the majority want and what they actually get in political representation is something else. For most of last century the public wanted capital punishment yet none of its elected parties would pass it...they wanted Brexit, but were denied a vote for decades and only given one out of desperation...they have always wanted lower immigration but none of the parties have lowered it....increased it in fact and then lied to them about reducing it......I could go on but I'm getting tired.

So forgive me for observing that, in terms of whose politics has been traditionally more popular, you are talking your usual deluded nonsense.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Mar 2022 11.12pm)

Serious question.

Do you actually believe in representative democracy, or do you believe that we ought to adopt a policy of direct democracy?

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 26 Mar 22 7.27am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Serious question.

Do you actually believe in representative democracy, or do you believe that we ought to adopt a policy of direct democracy?

What's the difference ?

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Mar 22 10.35am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What's the difference ?

I think direct democracy is using referandums for decisions. Off the top of my head, Switzerland does it quite a bit.

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 26 Mar 22 11.12am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I think direct democracy is using referandums for decisions. Off the top of my head, Switzerland does it quite a bit.

Aah I see. I have read about them thanx.
Didn't we have a referendum and the majority won.

Many didn't like it

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 Mar 22 12.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Serious question.

Do you actually believe in representative democracy, or do you believe that we ought to adopt a policy of direct democracy?


It's a good question but I'm busy today so I'll answer it tonight.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 27 Mar 22 11.24am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Serious question.

Do you actually believe in representative democracy, or do you believe that we ought to adopt a policy of direct democracy?

I've taken my time as I don't have a definite answer to what a best system would be.

I certainly seem to spend a lot of my political time criticising modern day elites.

In the past I would have had more trust in the system, but today I have far less.

However, that doesn't mean I'm against the concept of elites....which would be ridiculous anyway as they are an inevitability of any system. However, it's pretty clear to me that meritocracy isn't working as it should. I mean look at the last few presidents. The system isn't advancing and promoting the brightest.

Essentially I criticise the western system....which is run for the benefits of elites over its populations....Now obviously China and Russia are enemy states of the west (something I think was mishandled with Russia) However, there the billionaires have to work in concert with the state....the state isn't run essentially for them. Obviously I'm not for one minute saying that we should become those countries....but in the past our elites connected their destiny to that of their peoples....that has changed. To make a WW1 comparison the officers use to climb out of the trenches with the men, today our 'betters' regard us as cattle.

It's a difficult question.....I don't have a fully formed response to it as I'm not a political theorist.....but their are some obvious flaws within the current system.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 22 12.09pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I've taken my time as I don't have a definite answer to what a best system would be.

I certainly seem to spend a lot of my political time criticising modern day elites.

In the past I would have had more trust in the system, but today I have far less.

However, that doesn't mean I'm against the concept of elites....which would be ridiculous anyway as they are an inevitability of any system. However, it's pretty clear to me that meritocracy isn't working as it should. I mean look at the last few presidents. The system isn't advancing and promoting the brightest.

Essentially I criticise the western system....which is run for the benefits of elites over its populations....Now obviously China and Russia are enemy states of the west (something I think was mishandled with Russia) However, there the billionaires have to work in concert with the state....the state isn't run essentially for them. Obviously I'm not for one minute saying that we should become those countries....but in the past our elites connected their destiny to that of their peoples....that has changed. To make a WW1 comparison the officers use to climb out of the trenches with the men, today our 'betters' regard us as cattle.

It's a difficult question.....I don't have a fully formed response to it as I'm not a political theorist.....but their are some obvious flaws within the current system.

It's actually a very straightforward question, for which a yes, or no, answer can be given.

It really doesn't need a lot of waffle about "elites", which, in truth, have no bearing on the matter. They are just a fixation of yours which seem to dominate your thinking about almost everything, and be blamed for all that you think is wrong in the world. There has always been, and always will be, people who some will regard as the "elite". Who they are has changed over time, but once we have an ordered society we will have people doing the organisation.

That won't change whatever type of system we have to take decisions, and there are certainly weaknesses with all of them.

The idea that western states are run for the benefit of those you consider the "elites", rather than the people, is a recurrent theme of yours. One I consider fundamentally wrong, as representative democracy doesn't permit that. Don't get me wrong, I know people work the system, move their wealth and exercise influence, but the system is not structured to assist that. The system is structured to counter it, and we have the power to ensure it does.

That though is all a side track. The question was about representative or direct democracy, to which no answer has been given. You hardly need me to tell you which side of the fence I sit. The potential corruption that a representative system can develop can be controlled with rigorous oversight and severe penalties for transgressions. We can demand the highest standards of those we choose, then allow them to do their job and change them if they don't. Better that than allow decisions to be influenced by the unaccountable, with agendas. Those who very often don't have our best interests at heart. That's a very real danger these days. So we need to strengthen our representatives, rather than simply criticise them, as they are a vital protection for us all.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 27 Mar 22 12.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

You have your view and the right to be wrong.

Something which you exercise with energised frequency.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 22 1.06pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You have your view and the right to be wrong.

Something which you exercise with energised frequency.

I would still like to hear a commitment to an answer rather than a large swerve into a foggy siding.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 27 Mar 22 1.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I would still like to hear a commitment to an answer rather than a large swerve into a foggy siding.

You want me to make a commitment between two things when I think the problem lies less with the system and more with the source material within it.

If you insist upon some sort of answer I think representative democracy held within big buildings needs to embrace change....something you seem big on. I think the political class is too big for a start.....Quangos are mostly (if not all) a crony rip off. Anyone who has followed my views knows that I generally favour decentralisation over central.

I think more direct democracy can factor more into a better system....but I'm not paid to think of these things and far brighter minds could attend to that.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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