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July 5 2022 1.55am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Jun 22 3.07pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

I agree it's a worrying escalation, Russia are assembling triage & refugee centres on the border so they're not f***ing about.

Britain's stance with respect to its own military is bothering me a fair bit, were in the process of cutting another 10,000 troops because we have, for years failed to hit recruitment numbers.
We outsource recruitment to a third party who are useless.

If Britain is going to take this seriously we need to get back to operation lionheart level of capability & numbers.

A pretty tough ask considering half the country either hates Britain or has a deeper sense of loyalty to foreign powers.

Poland is the only country that is gearing up for conflict & actually doing a good job of mobilising.


Edited by Ouzo Dan (21 Jun 2022 11.06am)

There are so many self inflicted social problems wrapped up in why this is......that to focus upon them would take the thread away from the topic. That general was talking out of his backside in many ways but if it leads to a policy of serious investment in the military I regard it as sensible.....the short term political idiots who led us to our military's realities as usual escape without consequence...they should reflect well that Carthaginian cultural reactions never took hold.

Of course no one sensible thinks Russia are a land invasion threat to the UK....It's far more a nuclear threat and one that is impossible to win against with only assured mutual destruction.

The idea that Russia would tackle us any other way is about as sensible a reaction to realistic threat as the last two covid years were.....but modern Britain is feminine and governed by the fear response, not the rational.

However we do have alliances, principally NATO (which was over expanded) and other historical commitments and as I previously said hard power bleeds into soft power and affects multiple global influences and outcomes.

Once again, I believe western policy towards Russia since the nineties has mostly led us to here and the fact that anyone has to even think about this stuff is a monumental failure.

The immediate investment should be in de-escalation and realistic negotiation.....but instead everyone appears to think that continuing to destroy the economy and backing the losing side with ever more heavy weapons makes sense.

This is the most stupid of wars....but it's fit for our age.


Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2022 3.16pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 21 Jun 22 3.16pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

"Russia tells Lithuania: your citizens will feel the pain over Kaliningrad"

Two weeks ago they were denying the existance of Lithuania, saying it should be merged to Russia. Though they've been saying the same thing for decades of course. A 'Karen' nations words to a NATO country. We don't need a paper bag to breathe into for every hollow threat.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 21 Jun 22 3.20pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Russian Woman Who Told Putin To ĎBurn In Hellí Faces Terrorism Charges

Quote Russian woman has been accused of "calling for terrorism" and "discrediting" her country's armed forces after making a social media post that featured Vladimir Putin.

Irina Bystrova posted an image of Putin being engulfed in flames with the caption, "Burn in hell!" upon discovering that Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, the United States-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty reported.

Bystrova's social media account was blocked a month after she made the post, according to the report. In addition, officers from the police and Russia's Federal Security Service also searched her apartment and confiscated computers, cell phones and other items.

Bystrova now faces criminal charges for "calling for terrorism" and "discrediting the Russian armed forces," which can carry up to seven- and three-year prison sentences, respectively.

At least 15,542 people have been detained across Russia for anti-war demonstrations since the country invaded Ukraine, according to data provided by the independent Russian human rights monitor OVD-Info.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View W12's Profile W12 21 Jun 22 3.20pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Just because something happens in society that isn't ideal, it doesn't mean that viewing the west as 'malign', disbelieving anything 'mainstream' and launching full throttle into anything 'alt-media' (which has an even worse reputation for presenting very skewed perpsectives) is the answer to it. As I say your attitudes to the West and kid glove views to Russian aggression with its state approved comments about wiping our their neighbours identity where they stand in their way is a good example of this. Posting the Prisoner of War interview as if that was something that spoke in your favour said it all about your attitude.


Edited by BlueJay (21 Jun 2022 3.10pm)

You are conflating two different things but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's accidental. There is a difference between "society" and the people that rule us and that's really the problem. We are ruled rather than represented. The issue with society is that it is easy to manipulate via culture and media (documentaries like "century of the self" do a good job at explaining how) and we are at the ridiculous stage where we have to believe things that we know deep down to be untrue. e.g. a man can be a woman or we all must have multiple vaccines for a virus that kills at an equivalent rate as the flu.

Most people see an obfuscated world through a screen and what they see and hear is curated by other people.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Jun 22 3.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Putin was warning about this war since the coup of 2014: the war happened.

This is an existential war for Russia and due to how this has been handled it could now be for Ukraine.

Miscalculation isn't something anyone can afford here.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Ouzo Dan's Profile Ouzo Dan 21 Jun 22 3.51pm Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There are so many self inflicted social problems wrapped up in why this is......that to focus upon them would take the thread away from the topic. That general was talking out of his backside in many ways but if it leads to a policy of serious investment in the military I regard it as sensible.....the short term political idiots who led us to our military's realities as usual escape without consequence...they should reflect well that Carthaginian cultural reactions never took hold.

Of course no one sensible thinks Russia are a land invasion threat to the UK....It's far more a nuclear threat and one that is impossible to win against with only assured mutual destruction.

The idea that Russia would tackle us any other way is about as sensible a reaction to realistic threat as the last two covid years were.....but modern Britain is feminine and governed by the fear response, not the rational.

However we do have alliances, principally NATO (which was over expanded) and other historical commitments and as I previously said hard power bleeds into soft power and affects multiple global influences and outcomes.

Once again, I believe western policy towards Russia since the nineties has mostly led us to here and the fact that anyone has to even think about this stuff is a monumental failure.

The immediate investment should be in de-escalation and realistic negotiation.....but instead everyone appears to think that continuing to destroy the economy and backing the losing side with ever more heavy weapons makes sense.

This is the most stupid of wars....but it's fit for our age.


Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2022 3.16pm)

We Disagree on a few points but agree on what needs to be done with respect to our armed forces.
Sir Patrick Sanders is right to put pressure on Johnson and the Conservatives, if we're going to continue to support Ukraine in this war then we ourselves must be prepared at some point to fight because ultimately that is where this all leads to & right now we simply do not have enough of pretty much everything to make a difference.

The constant reduction in numbers is a National disgrace.
Like I have said before our Military needs to be in a position to deploy 100,000 to 140,000 personnel at short notice into Europe, we were capable of this in the 80's & that is where we must aspire to be again.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (21 Jun 2022 3.54pm)

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Jun 22 3.57pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

We Disagree on a few points but agree on what needs to be done with respect to our armed forces.
Sir Patrick Sanders is right to put pressure on Johnson and the Conservatives, if we're going to continue to support Ukraine in this war then we ourselves must be prepared at some point to fight because ultimately that is where this all leads to.

The constant reduction in numbers is a National disgrace.
Like I have said before our Military needs to be in a position to deploy 100,000 to 140,000 personnel at short notice into Europe, we were capable of this in the 80's & that is where we must aspire to be again.

My position in respect to what's best for the Ukraine is similar to Orban's.

However, we fully agree elsewhere.

If it were possible I'd go even higher with troop numbers....however, culturally and socially the mindset amongst young British males is nothing like it was when I was growing up....our military is nothing like as resolute as the one we sent to the Falklands....even if technology has changed the battlefield.

I do of course recognise Silvertop's reasons for why western democracies felt the need to outsource their security to the US...but it was wrong then as now.

Democracy has weaknesses.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2022 4.10pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 22 Jun 22 6.14pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Putin was warning about this war since the coup of 2014: the war happened.

This is an existential war for Russia and due to how this has been handled it could now be for Ukraine.

Miscalculation isn't something anyone can afford here.

Russia issues countless severe threats that it fails to see through . That's as much indicative of what they're all about than anything else really. Also, the tendency to frame Russia's conduct in such a light that excuses it, or removes it from being provocative behaviour ('existential' etc) when compared to the West, ultimately changes little. What would be existential would be a direct attack on Russia. That isn't happening.

If not that their substandard equipment, and Western help, there would essentially be no Ukranian Kyiv to look to, so that's more closely sligned with what would be existential for them. Russia have made it clear, their Kremlin approved media, press and Putin himself that Ukranian identity doesn't exist, and that objection to their 'operation' is by default 'nazi'. It's very easy to criticise what is happening, and blot out what clearly would've happened to Ukraine with no outside help. If anything we have likely secured Ukraines future, and an important more west friendly buffer. If we and others instead tied Ukraines hands by refusing to help them, we'd have emboldened Russia. The same fears would exist no matter their next move, and so there is logic to keeping the battleground where he is.

Logically the best outcome is a peace agreement, but without any western pushback there was zero chance of one ever happening (because why would Russia even need to with little pushback), and with there is 'some' chance. Most things in life are a matter of degrees this way and that, rather than a perfect outcome or a terrible one..

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 22 Jun 22 6.29pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by W12

The current regime does nothing for me and nothing for the English. If fact we are only viewed by globalists as a problem to be dealt with. I would like to see England free of the influence of these people.

In many alt-media circles, with dissident right and so on, 'Globalists' is routinely used as a nod and a wink or just directly stated, as way of denigrating and attacking jews. Aspects of having no allegiance to country and part of some shadowery global conspiracy.. Just thought I'd let you know as to give you a certain grounding if these are the garden paths you're toddling off down.

Edited by BlueJay (22 Jun 2022 6.41pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Jun 22 7.45pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Personally I've made it plain that I regard funding the Ukraine with 50 billion was a huge mistake in lives and leads to the destruction of the Ukraine not only financially but in the hundreds of thousands of lives that are going to be torn up...possibly millions if Russia decide to take it all now.

There was a genuine chance of peace in March but both Biden and mostly Johnson decided upon this path as the western response. The enlargement of this war into a cold war is a major disaster for the world in my view.....We are all going to suffer significantly unless something is done.....pushing Russia to China was just about the most stupid thing I've ever seen politically.

I've said from that start that I think our policy has been wrong and unfortunately it doesn't appear that I've been incorrect. The Ukraine isn't in Nato and none of this needed to happen....but apparently we fight wars outside of alliances now.....rather selectively I might add.

As for the increased threat of nuclear war I'm fed up with even talking about it now....I'll just say that previous generations were far more intelligent about those dangers.

To answer the smears regarding the dissident right....why are we talking about the dissident right in the Ukraine thread?

Telling people that referring to 'globalists' means you're talking about Jews is just another 'hope not hate' interpretation.

Globalists are far from just activist Jewish organisations. They are a movement incorporating both left and right and all nationalities.

Emotionally unstable people don't tend to be the best placed to comment on groups that they don't know aside from propaganda against them. However, they are desperate to dominate the narrative and scare people away from challenging their demographic replacement.

The suggestion that the dissident right hates Jews is no different to saying that the Labour party hates Jews.

The truth of the matter is those people exist but they aren't the majority of Labour nor the dissident right. Again, it's the same as the Labour party when Corbyn led it. The dissident right, like most movements is a smorgasbord of different people with differing takes....some of whom are quite opposed to each other, which is no different to most actual real world groups.

I find being told it's about hating Jews insulting myself as I was principally red pilled by a Jew and the movement contains Jews within it. As evidence to this I'll link to Frame Games Radio, a Jewish attorney who was a significant part of the online dissident right until he was bullied into silence.

[Link]

Here's a video that influenced me back in 2016/17 and his series on the diversity industry in America is pretty powerful.

[Link]

Because that's what these people do....they can't defeat the arguments so they ensure the arguments are silenced as much as possible and they are willing to go after you financially to do it....that's what happened with him.

If people are interested in the dissident right it's better to actually investigate that movement yourself rather than take opinions from those ideologically biased against them. Most of the actual 'hate' they talk about comes from them....if you follow and read what they write the truth of it becomes pretty apparent, it's mostly projection.

Like being told they have no allegiance to the country....we are literally talking about nationalists....what gets presented can be so absurd it gets comical.

Personally I spend quite a lot of time following AA. Here is his latest video. He was a highly successful academic, half Iranian, half Welsh. Listen to him and see how much he fits the stereotype that some people are so eager to present.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jun 2022 9.15pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View W12's Profile W12 22 Jun 22 8.13pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

In many alt-media circles, with dissident right and so on, 'Globalists' is routinely used as a nod and a wink or just directly stated, as way of denigrating and attacking jews. Aspects of having no allegiance to country and part of some shadowery global conspiracy.. Just thought I'd let you know as to give you a certain grounding if these are the garden paths you're toddling off down.

Edited by BlueJay (22 Jun 2022 6.41pm)

I agree but I donít mean jews. I should add that globalists do not have any allegiance to countries though.

Edited by W12 (22 Jun 2022 8.24pm)

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 22 Jun 22 9.09pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by W12

I agree but I donít mean jews. I should add that globalists do not have any allegiance to countries though.

Edited by W12 (22 Jun 2022 8.24pm)

Certainly.. it's a good description of most corporations and monied. And as the wealth divide increases it becomes more pronounced.

 

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