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July 5 2022 2.14am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 23 Jun 22 1.44pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by W12

There are so many huge geopolitical changes going on beyond this war and our media is silent. No least the alliances being formed within the BRICS nations that will fundamentally change the world.

The attached shows just how way off the media are from popular sentiment when it comes to basic issues (US example). Tells quite a story.

Polling firms should be impartial but unfortunately many aren't. One look at Rasmussen's twitter feed reveals them to be heavily politicised, which would seem to defeat the entire point of polling to begin with. Of course it ends up a case of being follow the money, with these firms leaning into this party or that in order to sustain and grow their business. I'm sure there are still some reliable polling companies, so as I say their clear slant, when these companies should be objective, doesn't fill you with confidence.

That aside, I don't actually disagree with the point that 'legacy media' fixates on issues stated. Unfortunate people seem to have missed the fact that online media of left and right, even more starkly in fact. People seem to think you've 'cracked the code' just because they can use a laptop. It's ultimately the same forces at play, and it's even easier to dehumanise various groups or perspectives online, because its more detached, and there are more niche little enclaves and echo chambers that pipe out their nonsense on a shoestring. People have already been 'trained' for infighting rather than those pulling the strings and the ultra monied, so it's just a more warped and exagerated version of the same probems, not less so.


 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View W12's Profile W12 23 Jun 22 1.53pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Even acknowledging that a war is taking place is Russia is taboo, speaking out against it a swift way to arrest and imprisonment. The Kremlin media narrative by virtue of this cannot even legally provide real world details of this invasion (or 'special military operation') in any meaningful way. While all nations media is inevitably partially skewed in alignment to our national and military action the BBC posts plenty of nuanced articles about the significant oil income of Russia [Link] and Russian successes in this war. Russian TV talks of how Ukraine identity doesn't exist, is 'nazi', and regularly threatens to nuke countries who push back against their provocation. I must have missed that happening in our media...

The BBC is far from perfect , but much of your perception of it and attitude to your country are clearly due to your own weakening allegaince to it due to what you see as its cultural direction (you even stated concerns at Western influence to Ukraines culture, but not Russias at any point - considering multiple high profile Russian sources have stated that any Ukrainians opposing Russias actions and worldview should be wiped out, as should Ukranian identity, that's quite some stance to adopt), and your own stark politics. For it's faults, nobody keyed into reality thinks the situation here is anything as bad as Russia. If you're fed 'truly' ultra skewed emotional led alt-media offal for the most part, of course that's going to be the take home though. That's not to say that of late you've not posted some more objective sources, but ultimately whatever matches the fit for one eyed demographic dislike or aversions seems to be what pulls people back in, and that can be true of far left, as well as far right.

No, it's just because they lie about pretty much everything. I've no idea what the Russians get from their own media (as I can't speak Russian and Russian channels are censored) but I do remember though that at least RT had long form interviews. Compared to the BBC's 2min soundbites and only inviting certain people on current affairs shows for character assassinations of people that didn't follow the correct agenda (media pile ons of people airing legitimate grievances like Tommy Robinson) . Anyway, probably best discussed on the BBC forum although it's familiar to most western mainstream media now. To view alternative media as "pro-Russian" by the way is just a mistake. Whether they are left or right leaning they tend to have a much more truly diverse make up and deal with things in much more detail and with nuance covering the "commissions" that tend to tell the important stories.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 23 Jun 22 2.13pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by W12
I've no idea what the Russians get from their own media (as I can't speak Russian and Russian channels are censored)

There are plenty of stark examples out there for you to watch. I've explained where that content sits, we know what they're legally allowed to state (its a 'special military operation' to 'denazify' of course), and consequences for those who don't tow the line. As I said you'll be waiting a long time for comentator after comentator on the BBC suggest we should nuke Russia or obliterate every person (civilain or otherwise) stand against their national agenda.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 23 Jun 22 2.15pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Polling firms should be impartial but unfortunately many aren't.



I think an over-reliance on polling to justify all kinds of things is proving a major issue in our political system. Brexit for example could have been very different if the polling methodology had been more accurate.

Worked out well for my side but suspect it paints far too many wrong pictures so everybody should be wary.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 23 Jun 22 2.38pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


I think an over-reliance on polling to justify all kinds of things is proving a major issue in our political system. Brexit for example could have been very different if the polling methodology had been more accurate.

Worked out well for my side but suspect it paints far too many wrong pictures so everybody should be wary.

Yes, it's another area where it pays to take in multiple sources and to try to get a feel of which firms are more reliable and trusted over time, just to get a view 'in the round'.. Because as you say they are not removed from bias and so can be used to provide or push a warped picture of a more nuanced reality. It can even happen unintentionally to some extent based on what people say to polling companies vs what they actually believe, but its potentially useful tool to get a feel of things.. Nowadays I'm as likely to look at betting odds though to be honest, as you can often deduce a lot from the 'money where your mouth is' perspective!

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 23 Jun 22 4.11pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Interesting that there are reports that Russia has dismantled and stolen the largest Solar panel plant in Ukraine (near the town of Tokmak). Occupied and transitioning to the Ruble from April, you'd think if they expected to hold the territory, they'd not dismantle it. It's almost as if the narrative that they sought to 'protect' these people and regions is a lie and they they'd rather drain these areas of anything of use... Imagine my shock..

The Soviet Union did the exact same thing with conquered territories. Moving industrial equipment back to Russia. Bleeding areas dry. Remember in Donbass in 2014, ideas of providing help to those in need, just PR stunts, sending empty 'humaniatarian aid' trucks [Link] As likely to remove than provide. Russians in Ukranian territory are useful to the contrived invasion narrative but that seems to be about the extent of it.


Edited by BlueJay (23 Jun 2022 5.00pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 23 Jun 22 5.04pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Interesting that there are reports that Russia has dismantled and stolen the largest Solar panel plant in Ukraine (near the town of Tokmak).


Edited by BlueJay (23 Jun 2022 5.00pm)


Perhaps they moved it because they are very easy to damage? I would hazard a guess those panels can be fragile enough at the best of times so if you chance upon them, and fancy using them, then getting them out of range of anybody who might want to scupper those plans is just sensible planning.

But who honestly knows anything with this wretched war?

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 23 Jun 22 5.07pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


Perhaps they moved it because they are very easy to damage? I would hazard a guess those panels can be fragile enough at the best of times so if you chance upon them, and fancy using them, then getting them out of range of anybody who might want to scupper those plans is just sensible planning.

But who honestly knows anything with this wretched war?

Certainly possible, but I'm sure the same reasoning could be stated if we suddenly see that they've been put back together firmly in Russian territory. Though yes, I agree, nobody really comes out of this a winner in terms of the price that is paid on all fronts.

 

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View Vincehair's Profile Vincehair Flag London 23 Jun 22 8.20pm Send a Private Message to Vincehair Add Vincehair as a friend

Ukr given EU candidate status in case it escaped your notice!

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 23 Jun 22 8.45pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Vincehair

Ukr given EU candidate status in case it escaped your notice!

The buffer, that the EU and Russia should both want, is likely now to be eroded away (Moldova has also been given candidate status). Two large blocks will be staring at each other when this concludes. Not a good thing imo.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Vincehair's Profile Vincehair Flag London 23 Jun 22 8.56pm Send a Private Message to Vincehair Add Vincehair as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

The buffer, that the EU and Russia should both want, is likely now to be eroded away (Moldova has also been given candidate status). Two large blocks will be staring at each other when this concludes. Not a good thing imo.

Thatís not what Ukranians are saying

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 23 Jun 22 9.14pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Vincehair

Thatís not what Ukranians are saying

Of course thatís what they want but that may give Putin an excuse to accelerate his plans; be prepared to have all gas to the EU stopped in retaliation. He doesnít have to use armed forces to get his way but he now has an excuse to Ďattackí the EU for them taking the Ukraine situation to the next level. The best outcome I can see is the eastern portion of Ukraine being given over to Russian influence as part of an acceptable condition of the EU expansion (effectively that area becomes the buffer).

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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