Declining Western populations

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silvertop Portishead 21 Mar 24 2.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger That does not mean that Brexit was the not way forward. We are talking about one issue here. It is not Brexit that caused a lack of will among politicians. We are only a few feet down the road as far as immigration is concerned. The pressures are only slowly being realised by the masses. Perhaps even the insulated and slightly dim politicians have only just figured out the mess they have caused. I have never known you to focus on any other issue on the News threads! I am not sure what you are saying. Halting non-EU immigration is a policy we could have pursued both inside and outside the EU. Some say that inside we would have been forced to accept a quota; but is that theory / a policy mooted by those being overwhelmed, or an enforceable EU law that has actually been applied?
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silvertop

Portishead 21 Mar 24 2.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That does not mean that Brexit was the not way forward. We are talking about one issue here.
It is not Brexit that caused a lack of will among politicians.

We are only a few feet down the road as far as immigration is concerned. The pressures are only slowly being realised by the masses. Perhaps even the insulated and slightly dim politicians have only just figured out the mess they have caused.

I have never known you to focus on any other issue on the News threads!

I am not sure what you are saying. Halting non-EU immigration is a policy we could have pursued both inside and outside the EU. Some say that inside we would have been forced to accept a quota; but is that theory / a policy mooted by those being overwhelmed, or an enforceable EU law that has actually been applied?

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 24 2.00pm
Originally posted by silvertop You're getting a bit National Socialist towards the end there Hrolf! On the main points, free flow means just that. Free in, where there is work; free out where there is not. Thus, Poles flooded in when the going was good. Poles flooded home when our economy stalled and theirs boomed (in relative terms). No sponging off the state or health tourism to take advantage of our NHS or any of the other fictitious nonsense created by the Daily Express. People who cross continents tend to be the complete opposite of that crypto-NAZI caricature. Some stayed, but only because they were settled, in full employment, adding to the economy and filling the government coffers with tax. On cultural dilution, 50 000 Poles arrived here after the War. They assimilated with ease; did not cause any significant (or any?) changes to our culture; and their descendants are now interchangeable with their Anglo peers. By way of example, we have Polish friends. One runs a beauty business, including a shop. Her husband sells agricultural equipment. Both entrepreneurs who employ people, own a house and declare fully for tax. Their kids are blond, healthy and speak with a strong Bristolian burr. Other than their kids' accents, what could you possibly object to in them? The Poles on the whole are hard workers. Good for them. How does that help the British? It is essential to the future of our very existence as a recognisable nation and tribe that we look within to solve the problems around employment, birth rate and our ageing population. Nothing else makes any sense on any level. The only people who benefit from the current policy are politicians, employers and foreigners. The rest of us are being screwed. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.00pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Mar 24 2.00pm

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Originally posted by silvertop

You're getting a bit National Socialist towards the end there Hrolf!

On the main points, free flow means just that. Free in, where there is work; free out where there is not. Thus, Poles flooded in when the going was good. Poles flooded home when our economy stalled and theirs boomed (in relative terms).

No sponging off the state or health tourism to take advantage of our NHS or any of the other fictitious nonsense created by the Daily Express. People who cross continents tend to be the complete opposite of that crypto-NAZI caricature.

Some stayed, but only because they were settled, in full employment, adding to the economy and filling the government coffers with tax.

On cultural dilution, 50 000 Poles arrived here after the War. They assimilated with ease; did not cause any significant (or any?) changes to our culture; and their descendants are now interchangeable with their Anglo peers.

By way of example, we have Polish friends. One runs a beauty business, including a shop. Her husband sells agricultural equipment. Both entrepreneurs who employ people, own a house and declare fully for tax. Their kids are blond, healthy and speak with a strong Bristolian burr.

Other than their kids' accents, what could you possibly object to in them?

The Poles on the whole are hard workers. Good for them.
How does that help the British?

It is essential to the future of our very existence as a recognisable nation and tribe that we look within to solve the problems around employment, birth rate and our ageing population.

Nothing else makes any sense on any level.

The only people who benefit from the current policy are politicians, employers and foreigners.

The rest of us are being screwed.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.00pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 24 2.05pm
Originally posted by silvertop I have never known you to focus on any other issue on the News threads! I am not sure what you are saying. Halting non-EU immigration is a policy we could have pursued both inside and outside the EU. Some say that inside we would have been forced to accept a quota; but is that theory / a policy mooted by those being overwhelmed, or an enforceable EU law that has actually been applied? What we are talking about here is the increased difficulty for Europeans to come here and work now we are out of the EU and the potential for that to increase non EU immigration. Who actually comes here is a decision for the government of the day. They can decrease legal immigration when ever they please by changing the criteria for entry. Brexit is not the deciding factor.
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Mar 24 2.05pm

Originally posted by silvertop

I have never known you to focus on any other issue on the News threads!

What we are talking about here is the increased difficulty for Europeans to come here and work now we are out of the EU and the potential for that to increase non EU immigration.

Who actually comes here is a decision for the government of the day. They can decrease legal immigration when ever they please by changing the criteria for entry. Brexit is not the deciding factor.

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silvertop Portishead 21 Mar 24 2.08pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The Poles on the whole are hard workers. Good for them. How does that help the British? It is essential to the future of our very existence as a recognisable nation and tribe that we look within to solve the problems around employment, birth rate and our ageing population. Nothing else makes any sense on any level. The only people who benefit from the current policy are politicians, employers and foreigners. The rest of us are being screwed. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.00pm) We have been a mongrel "tribe" since the Romans. Possibly earlier? Ask any dog breeder which are the healthiest, most adaptable dog and they are mongrels. Pure is not always best. And I am not talking about the massive increase in non-Europeans in recent years so please don't mention that as it does not address what I am saying.
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silvertop

Portishead 21 Mar 24 2.08pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The Poles on the whole are hard workers. Good for them.
How does that help the British?

It is essential to the future of our very existence as a recognisable nation and tribe that we look within to solve the problems around employment, birth rate and our ageing population.

Nothing else makes any sense on any level.

The only people who benefit from the current policy are politicians, employers and foreigners.

The rest of us are being screwed.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.00pm)

We have been a mongrel "tribe" since the Romans. Possibly earlier?

Ask any dog breeder which are the healthiest, most adaptable dog and they are mongrels.

Pure is not always best.

And I am not talking about the massive increase in non-Europeans in recent years so please don't mention that as it does not address what I am saying.

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silvertop Portishead 21 Mar 24 2.10pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What we are talking about here is the increased difficulty for Europeans to come here and work now we are out of the EU and the potential for that to increase non EU immigration. Who actually comes here is a decision for the government of the day. They can decrease legal immigration when ever they please by changing the criteria for entry. Brexit is not the deciding factor. If you are saying that Brexit has caused a gap which is being filled by non-EU immigrants, I have seen no evidence but that could be possible.
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silvertop

Portishead 21 Mar 24 2.10pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What we are talking about here is the increased difficulty for Europeans to come here and work now we are out of the EU and the potential for that to increase non EU immigration.

Who actually comes here is a decision for the government of the day. They can decrease legal immigration when ever they please by changing the criteria for entry. Brexit is not the deciding factor.

If you are saying that Brexit has caused a gap which is being filled by non-EU immigrants, I have seen no evidence but that could be possible.

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Mar 24 2.14pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Strange isn’t it? I thought the idea of Brexit was to stop the free movement of people from within the EU to the UK. “European “ people. Not “non-European” people! The effect, of course, has been the exact reverse. Many EU citizens have left to be replaced by non-EU migrants. This will, inevitably, be a continuing trend. Unless of course we rejoin! How long before the Brexiteers start making the argument that we must rejoin to try to stop the inflow of “non-white” people? Actually the government claimed that they could not control non EU migration as they would like because it would be unfair due to freedom of movement for EU citizens. So the argument for Brexit was to allow us to have a fairer immigration system for everyone. This the current government has not done but could, it choose not to and can no longer hide behind "it's the EU fault". Edited by Badger11 (21 Mar 2024 2.15pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Mar 24 2.14pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Strange isn’t it?

I thought the idea of Brexit was to stop the free movement of people from within the EU to the UK. “European “ people. Not “non-European” people!

The effect, of course, has been the exact reverse. Many EU citizens have left to be replaced by non-EU migrants.

This will, inevitably, be a continuing trend. Unless of course we rejoin!

How long before the Brexiteers start making the argument that we must rejoin to try to stop the inflow of “non-white” people?

Actually the government claimed that they could not control non EU migration as they would like because it would be unfair due to freedom of movement for EU citizens.

So the argument for Brexit was to allow us to have a fairer immigration system for everyone. This the current government has not done but could, it choose not to and can no longer hide behind "it's the EU fault".

Edited by Badger11 (21 Mar 2024 2.15pm)

One more point

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Stirlingsays 21 Mar 24 2.21pm
Originally posted by silvertop Which is why Remoaners continue to bash their heads against the wall in despair, as voting Brexit could never have achieved that. There is indeed a great deal to say about BJ, but he cannot have "betrayed" you on this issue as the only immigration Brexit could control was of EU citizens. A self-served bullet in both feet. What you're saying here is that when the British public are given a say on whether they want to control immigration....any kind of immigration (and the EU are swamping their own lands with non EU migrants...a point you're ignoring) that they should say 'no thanks'. Of course Johnson betrayed us....just as the Tories betrayed this country on immigration in every single manifesto since WW2. That truth is now stark with conservatives and they will suffer the consequences. A country that has full control of its immigration policy has no where to hide in terms of the truth. You just seem to be arguing for a slower swamping with no possibility of a political change that could reverse it......As being under the EU heel it would be impossible. The Brexit betrayal on immigration is the last straw. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Mar 2024 2.22pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Mar 24 2.21pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Which is why Remoaners continue to bash their heads against the wall in despair, as voting Brexit could never have achieved that.

There is indeed a great deal to say about BJ, but he cannot have "betrayed" you on this issue as the only immigration Brexit could control was of EU citizens.

A self-served bullet in both feet.

What you're saying here is that when the British public are given a say on whether they want to control immigration....any kind of immigration (and the EU are swamping their own lands with non EU migrants...a point you're ignoring) that they should say 'no thanks'.

Of course Johnson betrayed us....just as the Tories betrayed this country on immigration in every single manifesto since WW2. That truth is now stark with conservatives and they will suffer the consequences.

A country that has full control of its immigration policy has no where to hide in terms of the truth.

You just seem to be arguing for a slower swamping with no possibility of a political change that could reverse it......As being under the EU heel it would be impossible.
The Brexit betrayal on immigration is the last straw.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Mar 2024 2.22pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 24 2.22pm
Originally posted by silvertop We have been a mongrel "tribe" since the Romans. Possibly earlier? Ask any dog breeder which are the healthiest, most adaptable dog and they are mongrels. Pure is not always best. And I am not talking about the massive increase in non-Europeans in recent years so please don't mention that as it does not address what I am saying. Please don't start that Wisbechesque codswallop. We have had a stable population for centuries. The Romans and Normans contributed next to nothing to our gene pool. Some of us have North Western European and Scandinavian heritage but the vast majority of genes swimming around Britain haven't changed much for 2000 years and beyond. On my mothers side, for example, I only got English and Scottish genes. I'm 84% English, a bit Scottish and a little bit Irish and Welsh, Norwegian and Germanic. You will find something similar for the vast majority. Hybrid vigour or heterosis is a good thing, but most of our new friends don't breed with the existing population. We now have a growing Balkanisation of Britain.
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Mar 24 2.22pm

Originally posted by silvertop

We have been a mongrel "tribe" since the Romans. Possibly earlier?

Ask any dog breeder which are the healthiest, most adaptable dog and they are mongrels.

Pure is not always best.

And I am not talking about the massive increase in non-Europeans in recent years so please don't mention that as it does not address what I am saying.

Please don't start that Wisbechesque codswallop.

We have had a stable population for centuries. The Romans and Normans contributed next to nothing to our gene pool.

Some of us have North Western European and Scandinavian heritage but the vast majority of genes swimming around Britain haven't changed much for 2000 years and beyond.

On my mothers side, for example, I only got English and Scottish genes. I'm 84% English, a bit Scottish and a little bit Irish and Welsh, Norwegian and Germanic.

You will find something similar for the vast majority.

Hybrid vigour or heterosis is a good thing, but most of our new friends don't breed with the existing population.
We now have a growing Balkanisation of Britain.

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 24 2.29pm
Originally posted by silvertop If you are saying that Brexit has caused a gap which is being filled by non-EU immigrants, I have seen no evidence but that could be possible. The point is that the total number of migrants is increasing. We still had plenty of non EU immigration while we were in Europe as the national demographic demonstrates. If we now have a greater proportion of Non EU migrants, that could be reduced at any time by any government by reducing the total numbers. The net result would still be less Non EU migrants.
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Mar 24 2.29pm

Originally posted by silvertop

If you are saying that Brexit has caused a gap which is being filled by non-EU immigrants, I have seen no evidence but that could be possible.

The point is that the total number of migrants is increasing.
We still had plenty of non EU immigration while we were in Europe as the national demographic demonstrates.

If we now have a greater proportion of Non EU migrants, that could be reduced at any time by any government by reducing the total numbers. The net result would still be less Non EU migrants.

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Hrolf The Ganger 21 Mar 24 2.41pm
Oh, and over 800 new illegals have arrived here in the last 2 days so far. It's only 2.34PM. The left are still trying to thwart any efforts to deal with this emergency situation and are threatening our way of life and costing us by doing so. How can anyone think that voting Labour is a good idea? Why are we not introducing emergency measures and set up a camp on some remote island until they can be processed? It would be worth the cost to discourage migrants and shut down the business model. We also need much better security at ports. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.41pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

21 Mar 24 2.41pm

Oh, and over 800 new illegals have arrived here in the last 2 days so far. It's only 2.34PM.

The left are still trying to thwart any efforts to deal with this emergency situation and are threatening our way of life and costing us by doing so.

How can anyone think that voting Labour is a good idea?

Why are we not introducing emergency measures and set up a camp on some remote island until they can be processed?

It would be worth the cost to discourage migrants and shut down the business model. We also need much better security at ports.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.41pm)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Mar 24 2.52pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Actually the government claimed that they could not control non EU migration as they would like because it would be unfair due to freedom of movement for EU citizens. So the argument for Brexit was to allow us to have a fairer immigration system for everyone. This the current government has not done but could, it choose not to and can no longer hide behind "it's the EU fault". Edited by Badger11 (21 Mar 2024 2.15pm) That’s a new one on me! The government did strictly control non EU migration before Brexit, especially after the expansion east, arguing that our needs could all be served from there. It is only after Brexit that things have relaxed, For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Mar 24 2.52pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Actually the government claimed that they could not control non EU migration as they would like because it would be unfair due to freedom of movement for EU citizens.

Edited by Badger11 (21 Mar 2024 2.15pm)

That’s a new one on me! The government did strictly control non EU migration before Brexit, especially after the expansion east, arguing that our needs could all be served from there. It is only after Brexit that things have relaxed,

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 21 Mar 24 2.59pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Oh, and over 800 new illegals have arrived here in the last 2 days so far. It's only 2.34PM. The left are still trying to thwart any efforts to deal with this emergency situation and are threatening our way of life and costing us by doing so. How can anyone think that voting Labour is a good idea? Why are we not introducing emergency measures and set up a camp on some remote island until they can be processed? It would be worth the cost to discourage migrants and shut down the business model. We also need much better security at ports. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.41pm) Couldn't agree more Hrolf. My views are closely aligned with yours on this topic. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 21 Mar 24 2.59pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Oh, and over 800 new illegals have arrived here in the last 2 days so far. It's only 2.34PM.

The left are still trying to thwart any efforts to deal with this emergency situation and are threatening our way of life and costing us by doing so.

How can anyone think that voting Labour is a good idea?

Why are we not introducing emergency measures and set up a camp on some remote island until they can be processed?

It would be worth the cost to discourage migrants and shut down the business model. We also need much better security at ports.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Mar 2024 2.41pm)

Couldn't agree more Hrolf. My views are closely aligned with yours on this topic.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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