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Rudi Hedman Caterham 28 Nov 18 8.54pm
Originally posted by DanH He's got a point though. If the referendum was re-run it would probably swing to remain just purely from leave voters who have since died and those now of voting age who couldn't vote at the time. For such a huge decision which will affect the next good half a century, going with a vote which was won largely due to the older demographics is fcking stupid. You can repair a country after war in a fraction of that time. We’ll be trading in the same market less and other markets more, not blowing up the capital and every city. Melodramatic bender. COYP*
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 28 Nov 18 8.54pm

Originally posted by DanH

He's got a point though.

If the referendum was re-run it would probably swing to remain just purely from leave voters who have since died and those now of voting age who couldn't vote at the time.

For such a huge decision which will affect the next good half a century, going with a vote which was won largely due to the older demographics is f*cking stupid.

You can repair a country after war in a fraction of that time. We’ll be trading in the same market less and other markets more, not blowing up the capital and every city. Melodramatic bender.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 28 Nov 18 8.55pm
Originally posted by becky Well, that's set you up to take the "Most Insultingly Condescending Poster of the Year" Award. It made me chuckle throughout. Edited by Rudi Hedman (28 Nov 2018 9.09pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 28 Nov 18 8.55pm

Originally posted by becky

Well, that's set you up to take the "Most Insultingly Condescending Poster of the Year" Award.

It made me chuckle throughout.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (28 Nov 2018 9.09pm)

COYP

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 18 9.15pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC I don’t believe that globalisation = peace, love and harmony. I do believe that there is nothing you can do about it. Fanatical Nationalism, and worse, Ethno Nationalism are damaging and pointless. Love your country, but don’t be a massive dick. I think you're plain wrong. Perhaps that's because you have only experienced a country that hasn't attempted to do anything about it. What you deem to be 'fanatical nationalism' is actually commonplace around the world and in reality is just nationalism. For example, in Europe we have both Poland and Hungary resisting immigration rather successfully. Elsewhere Japan and China are massively wealthy economies who won't have large scale foreign immigration into their country. They have seen the stupidity in the west. What you paint as negative is actually people choosing their own culture and traditions above building up foreign demographics within their country who will then thank them by calling them racist and slowly break social cohesion in the country creating de facto separation zones by class and ghettos by race within many zones in their countries. If globalization means losing your country then two fingers to globalization and its adherents. Originally posted by SW19 CPFC I’m also fully behind leaving, and I don’t agree with a second referendum, which would almost certainly result in another leave vote. Well, this we agree on....even if I realise that it's only a delay. Originally posted by SW19 CPFC The country is not lost. It might be to you if you’re living in the past, but time doesn’t stand still, and yours is almost up. My head is also clearly not in the sand, but it might be if I was on your beach. It wouldn’t be a big one mind. More a temporary wisp of sand, one wave away from ceasing to exist. Again, I refer to you many countries around the world where you vision of inevitability is just not the reality. It requires a basic nationalism within a country to achieve it though and the English/British are just too sheep like to currently understand what's happening to them in large enough numbers yet.....But it's occurring and the state is already concerned about it. In essence it comes down to what's important to you and what reality you wish your children to grow up in. I realise that the social constructionists among us just think that the future is going to be fine....but then that's social constructionists for you....they have been f***ing up everything for decades because they don't understand their arse from their elbow. But yeah...I consider this country to be lost...certainly long term...simply because the UK mindset is far more suited to avoiding confrontation and kicking cans down the road than it is with saving itself. Maybe that's a good thing because it isn't going to be pretty otherwise. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 18 9.15pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I don’t believe that globalisation = peace, love and harmony. I do believe that there is nothing you can do about it. Fanatical Nationalism, and worse, Ethno Nationalism are damaging and pointless. Love your country, but don’t be a massive dick.

I think you're plain wrong. Perhaps that's because you have only experienced a country that hasn't attempted to do anything about it.

What you deem to be 'fanatical nationalism' is actually commonplace around the world and in reality is just nationalism.

For example, in Europe we have both Poland and Hungary resisting immigration rather successfully. Elsewhere Japan and China are massively wealthy economies who won't have large scale foreign immigration into their country. They have seen the stupidity in the west.

What you paint as negative is actually people choosing their own culture and traditions above building up foreign demographics within their country who will then thank them by calling them racist and slowly break social cohesion in the country creating de facto separation zones by class and ghettos by race within many zones in their countries.

If globalization means losing your country then two fingers to globalization and its adherents.

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I’m also fully behind leaving, and I don’t agree with a second referendum, which would almost certainly result in another leave vote.

Well, this we agree on....even if I realise that it's only a delay.

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

The country is not lost. It might be to you if you’re living in the past, but time doesn’t stand still, and yours is almost up. My head is also clearly not in the sand, but it might be if I was on your beach. It wouldn’t be a big one mind. More a temporary wisp of sand, one wave away from ceasing to exist.

Again, I refer to you many countries around the world where you vision of inevitability is just not the reality.

It requires a basic nationalism within a country to achieve it though and the English/British are just too sheep like to currently understand what's happening to them in large enough numbers yet.....But it's occurring and the state is already concerned about it.

In essence it comes down to what's important to you and what reality you wish your children to grow up in. I realise that the social constructionists among us just think that the future is going to be fine....but then that's social constructionists for you....they have been f***ing up everything for decades because they don't understand their arse from their elbow.

But yeah...I consider this country to be lost...certainly long term...simply because the UK mindset is far more suited to avoiding confrontation and kicking cans down the road than it is with saving itself.

Maybe that's a good thing because it isn't going to be pretty otherwise.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 18 9.41pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Yeah, nice attempt at introducing a set of responses to points I didn’t make. As per. The Hitler drop is just plain silly. Again, seems to get trotted out when in a corner, or as some kind of segue super move. The general point is what happens in two weeks won’t impact on you. Your general point of view and end of life attitude will die out with your generation. And although not conclusive, that generation overwhelmingly voted to put us in this mess, mainly as a big anti-authoritarian f*** you. I’d have more respect if their votes were actually related to the question being posed. If you read my apparent contender for most condescending post of the year, I clearly reference the future being decided by people not in the present, but in the past, and with very little to effect them post brexit. As before, it’s fine to use negative life experiences to drive such a fanatical anti-establishment sentiment, but don’t let it cloud your judgement so much. If anything that statement speaks more to socialism, really. An ideology, incidentally, that I have no interest in. But I’m not too keen on a rampant everyone out for themselves attitude either, as you lay out so wonderfully as being the only remaining choice. Extreme versions of either are the road to ruin. Also, it’s all very well labelling me a sheep, but what exactly are you doing to attempt to get your point of view heard besides living on this forum? If anything you’re as complicit as I’m apparently supposed to be. I don’t believe that globalisation = peace, love and harmony. I do believe that there is nothing you can do about it. Fanatical Nationalism, and worse, Ethno Nationalism are damaging and pointless. Love your country, but don’t be a massive dick. I’m also fully behind leaving, and I don’t agree with a second referendum, which would almost certainly result in another leave vote. The country is not lost. It might be to you if you’re living in the past, but time doesn’t stand still, and yours is almost up. My head is also clearly not in the sand, but it might be if I was on your beach. It wouldn’t be a big one mind. More a temporary wisp of sand, one wave away from ceasing to exist. Wow. So much waffle. I'm not concerned with the past, only the future. Nationalism as you see it has little to do with it but the existence of nations is a fact. To undermine nations by creating a superstate based primarily on the ability to sell things globally and control huge amounts of people from a single unelected body is not what I call utopia. That is where Europe is heading. You can drone on all you like but face reality. Also. don't be so arrogant as to think that the vote of the young is any more important than of the old. Anyone who would prefer the wisdom of the young over the aged must be a little dim. You are obviously a little devoid of understanding if you don't realise that people a little closer to death than you might be thinking of their children and grandchildren rather than themselves. I really have nothing more to say to someone who is so far up their own arse.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 18 9.41pm

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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Yeah, nice attempt at introducing a set of responses to points I didn’t make. As per.

The Hitler drop is just plain silly. Again, seems to get trotted out when in a corner, or as some kind of segue super move.

The general point is what happens in two weeks won’t impact on you. Your general point of view and end of life attitude will die out with your generation. And although not conclusive, that generation overwhelmingly voted to put us in this mess, mainly as a big anti-authoritarian f*** you. I’d have more respect if their votes were actually related to the question being posed.

If you read my apparent contender for most condescending post of the year, I clearly reference the future being decided by people not in the present, but in the past, and with very little to effect them post brexit.

As before, it’s fine to use negative life experiences to drive such a fanatical anti-establishment sentiment, but don’t let it cloud your judgement so much. If anything that statement speaks more to socialism, really. An ideology, incidentally, that I have no interest in. But I’m not too keen on a rampant everyone out for themselves attitude either, as you lay out so wonderfully as being the only remaining choice. Extreme versions of either are the road to ruin.

Also, it’s all very well labelling me a sheep, but what exactly are you doing to attempt to get your point of view heard besides living on this forum? If anything you’re as complicit as I’m apparently supposed to be.

I’m also fully behind leaving, and I don’t agree with a second referendum, which would almost certainly result in another leave vote.

Wow. So much waffle.

I'm not concerned with the past, only the future.

Nationalism as you see it has little to do with it but the existence of nations is a fact. To undermine nations by creating a superstate based primarily on the ability to sell things globally and control huge amounts of people from a single unelected body is not what I call utopia. That is where Europe is heading.

You can drone on all you like but face reality. Also. don't be so arrogant as to think that the vote of the young is any more important than of the old.
Anyone who would prefer the wisdom of the young over the aged must be a little dim.
You are obviously a little devoid of understanding if you don't realise that people a little closer to death than you might be thinking of their children and grandchildren rather than themselves.

I really have nothing more to say to someone who is so far up their own arse.

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Pussay Patrol 28 Nov 18 9.51pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Maybe that's a good thing because it isn't going to be pretty otherwise. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm) Rivers of blood? Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

28 Nov 18 9.51pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Maybe that's a good thing because it isn't going to be pretty otherwise.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm)

Rivers of blood?

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 18 10.06pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol Rivers of blood? You already have rivers of blood. Like I said, the country's already lost.....it's managed decline and increasing bulkisation....which has been happening for decades....Labour and the EU have only sped it up. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 10.08pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 18 10.06pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Rivers of blood?

You already have rivers of blood.

Like I said, the country's already lost.....it's managed decline and increasing bulkisation....which has been happening for decades....Labour and the EU have only sped it up.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 10.08pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 28 Nov 18 10.10pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Wow. So much waffle. I'm not concerned with the past, only the future. Nationalism as you see it has little to do with it but the existence of nations is a fact. To undermine nations by creating a superstate based primarily on the ability to sell things globally and control huge amounts of people from a single unelected body is not what I call utopia. That is where Europe is heading. You can drone on all you like but face reality. Also. don't be so arrogant as to think that the vote of the young is any more important than of the old. Anyone who would prefer the wisdom of the young over the aged must be a little dim. You are obviously a little devoid of understanding if you don't realise that people a little closer to death than you might be thinking of their children and grandchildren rather than themselves. I really have nothing more to say to someone who is so far up their own arse. Again with the responses to points I didn’t make. As per. Offer up a decent retort and I might stop waffling. You’re only making it worse. Dim is doing the same thing over and over again. Like you two on this forum. You’re inherently defeatist, negative, irrationally anti-authoritarian, and distanced from reality. I’m embracing mine. And living, out in the big wide world. You know, the one that’s outside this forum that, probably due to lack of funds and social integration you’ve grown to resent. Also, correction - ‘thinking for their children and grandchildren’. That’s a bit closer to your position. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 28 Nov 18 10.10pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Wow. So much waffle.

I really have nothing more to say to someone who is so far up their own arse.

Again with the responses to points I didn’t make. As per. Offer up a decent retort and I might stop waffling. You’re only making it worse.

Dim is doing the same thing over and over again. Like you two on this forum.

You’re inherently defeatist, negative, irrationally anti-authoritarian, and distanced from reality. I’m embracing mine. And living, out in the big wide world. You know, the one that’s outside this forum that, probably due to lack of funds and social integration you’ve grown to resent.

Also, correction - ‘thinking for their children and grandchildren’. That’s a bit closer to your position.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 18 10.11pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol Rivers of blood? You think that Stirling will be cowed by quoting Powell? Powell made a fairly good assessment of the future, irrespective of his motives.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Nov 18 10.11pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Rivers of blood?

You think that Stirling will be cowed by quoting Powell?

Powell made a fairly good assessment of the future, irrespective of his motives.

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Pussay Patrol 28 Nov 18 10.16pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You already have rivers of blood. Like I said, the country's already lost.....it's managed decline and increasing bulkisation....which has been happening for decades....Labour and the EU have only sped it up. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 10.08pm) Really, how interesting When's your medication time? Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

28 Nov 18 10.16pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You already have rivers of blood.

Like I said, the country's already lost.....it's managed decline and increasing bulkisation....which has been happening for decades....Labour and the EU have only sped it up.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 10.08pm)

Really, how interesting When's your medication time?

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 18 10.18pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC You’re inherently defeatist, negative, irrationally anti-authoritarian, and distanced from reality. I’m embracing mine. And living, out in the big wide world. You know, the one that’s outside this forum that, probably due to lack of funds and social integration you’ve grown to resent. I'm doing alright actually, not that someone's financial situation is relevant here. It's kind of amusing that you take that angle. You're full of insults and low on analysis. All you have are platitudes and you're presented no alternative vision that can be compared with reality. You pretend to know our type but from what I've read so far you're just full of yourself and reciting stereotypes from your own head. You can deal with the points or not. If you just want the insults, fine I'll play.....until I'm bored with you anyway. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 10.22pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 18 10.18pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'm doing alright actually, not that someone's financial situation is relevant here. It's kind of amusing that you take that angle.

You're full of insults and low on analysis. All you have are platitudes and you're presented no alternative vision that can be compared with reality.

You pretend to know our type but from what I've read so far you're just full of yourself and reciting stereotypes from your own head.

You can deal with the points or not. If you just want the insults, fine I'll play.....until I'm bored with you anyway.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 10.22pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 28 Nov 18 10.20pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol Really, how interesting When's your medication time? Straight after your enema......I take an aspirin....it helps with reading your statements. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Nov 18 10.20pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Really, how interesting When's your medication time?

Straight after your enema......I take an aspirin....it helps with reading your statements.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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steve1984 28 Nov 18 10.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays For example, in Europe we have both Poland and Hungary resisting immigration rather successfully. They have seen the stupidity in the west. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm) Sorry you're wrong. In reality what has happened in Hungary is that the country is run by a kleptocracy. Amongst many other crimes committed by the current government is the millions of Euros spent on propaganda campaigns to help create a non-existant external enemy of the people. This has had a number of benefits for the government. Firstly it helps detract voters attention away from the massive and systemic corruption that is being perpetrated by the government and it's oligarchs. Second it positions them as the saviours of the nation. Everyone is against little old Hungary but we'll protect you. Thirdly and much more prosaically, the money spent on posters, TV & radio ads, online, press and PR articles is public money, much of it from the EU (yes some of it was yours). But the media owners who end up with it are all oligarchs and most of it ends up in a swiss bank account. Orban Viktor's to be specific. Hungary is not an attractive destination for immigrants. Living standards are low, the language impenetrable, taxes are astronomical and prices very high. When a few thousand refugees marched over the border from Serbia a few years ago they were all heading to Germany. None of them had any intention of staying in Hungary. Originally posted by Stirlingsays What you paint as negative is actually people choosing their own culture and traditions Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm) No they aren't, they're being manipulated by criminals. Edited by steve1984 (28 Nov 2018 10.34pm) Edited by steve1984 (28 Nov 2018 10.36pm)
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steve1984 28 Nov 18 10.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

For example, in Europe we have both Poland and Hungary resisting immigration rather successfully. They have seen the stupidity in the west.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm)

Sorry you're wrong.

In reality what has happened in Hungary is that the country is run by a kleptocracy. Amongst many other crimes committed by the current government is the millions of Euros spent on propaganda campaigns to help create a non-existant external enemy of the people.

This has had a number of benefits for the government.

Firstly it helps detract voters attention away from the massive and systemic corruption that is being perpetrated by the government and it's oligarchs.

Second it positions them as the saviours of the nation. Everyone is against little old Hungary but we'll protect you.

Thirdly and much more prosaically, the money spent on posters, TV & radio ads, online, press and PR articles is public money, much of it from the EU (yes some of it was yours). But the media owners who end up with it are all oligarchs and most of it ends up in a swiss bank account. Orban Viktor's to be specific.

Hungary is not an attractive destination for immigrants. Living standards are low, the language impenetrable, taxes are astronomical and prices very high.

When a few thousand refugees marched over the border from Serbia a few years ago they were all heading to Germany. None of them had any intention of staying in Hungary.

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

What you paint as negative is actually people choosing their own culture and traditions

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2018 9.17pm)

No they aren't, they're being manipulated by criminals.

Edited by steve1984 (28 Nov 2018 10.34pm)

Edited by steve1984 (28 Nov 2018 10.36pm)

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