Labour leadership contest.
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 chris123  hove actually 19 Dec 19 10.04am |
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Originally posted by johnno42000
Personally I like Jess Phillips but she has criticised Corbyn and is to the centre of the Party so Momentum would need to be challenged and beaten. If Kinnock can do what his dad did and take on and beat the far left then he would be a good choice. A few others Andy Burnham, Caroline Flint and Dan Jarvis. It'll be hard for any new leader but I believe that, as BJ said, votes have been lent and anything lent can be regained. I believe both Brexit and Corbyn (rightly or wrongly) had massive negative impacts for the Labour vote and with both these things gone (hopefully) by the time of the next election it is just about possible for Labour to make serious inroads if (and it is a big if) they can get their act together. I agree on Andy Burnham - the Labour leadership process seems like it could do with an overhaul - they don't have a deputy either.
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| Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 10.09am |
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I strongly dislike Jess Phillips. A censorship loving man hating feminist.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Dec 19 8.31am |
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They should just draw straws. Short straw has to be leader for next five years.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 20 Dec 19 8.59am |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
They should just draw straws. Short straw has to be leader for next five years. You could be right it's the Alex Ferguson syndrome. You don't want to the person who takes over from Corbyn* but the person after that. Unless the Tories really screw up they should win in 5 years with Boris. It will take Labour that time to sort out it's internal issues and get rid of the nasty element. The leader that takes over after that would have clean hands and not be associated with Corbyn his nastiness and failure. *At least Sir Alex was a success.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 9.52am |
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I know people will call me deluded for this but feel like this site needs a bit of balance so here's the view from a Corbynite perspective... Corbyn was elected Labour leader 4 years ago. His task as set out in his leadership pitch was to democratize the party and turn the tide of unrelenting neoliberalism in this country. To an extent he succeeded, but of course the election was a disaster. However, many including myself would say that in a political climate of near complete supplication to billionaires, media barons and entrenched elites, it was too ambitious to assume all would be realised within 4 years, regardless of if the election was won or not. So what's the choice now? Back to mediocre PR savvy types who look good and wear nice suits, or invest in the political project that the Labour Party was originally set up for? More work needs to be done on the ground. Momentum needs to become an active group in aiding food banks, homeless shelters, political education classes and promoting unionisation. And the leader needs to be someone who can harness the biggest political movement in Western Europe as well as winning trust of millions who have lost faith in labour over the past 20 years. I quite like Clive Lewis personally. One final point: the election did highlight the sharp generational divide in our society which is surely promising for Labour going forward. Think Lewis would be a good spokesperson for those people, and he's ex military so should be able to take the pounding Murdoch et al will inevitably give him. Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am)
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Midlands Eagle 20 Dec 19 10.38am |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
the election did highlight the sharp generational divide in our society which is surely promising for Labour going forward. How much of that was to do with Corbyn's promise to scrap tuition fees and write off existing debts?
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| W12 20 Dec 19 12.42pm | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
His task as set out in his leadership pitch was to democratize the party and turn the tide of unrelenting neoliberalism in this country. Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am) The fact that Labour and lefties in general think that both supporting the EU and promoting mass immigration is somehow in step with this aim is tragic.
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| W12 20 Dec 19 12.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I strongly dislike Jess Phillips. A censorship loving man hating feminist. And she's on the moderate side of the party.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 12.49pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
How much of that was to do with Corbyn's promise to scrap tuition fees and write off existing debts? I think it's oversimplifying just to put it only down to that. For young people, climate change, tackling vulture landlords and austerity were massive issurs, and obviously they affect young people more than the old. And for older people, clearly the arguments about Corbyn's past with particular organisations and support for socialism were less popular. And obviously Brexit was a bigger issue as well.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 12.56pm |
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Originally posted by W12
The fact that Labour and lefties in general think that both supporting the EU and promoting mass immigration is somehow in step with this aim is tragic. Well first, I think many of us on the left have always been critical of the EU on this front. We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU. Second, migration is the argument which gives the establishment the most glee. It is in their interest, because as profit makers, migrants bring in the least money to a private based system. And of course it is the perfect scapegoat for the inneficiencies of the NHS, even when those inefficiencies are made so much worse when pharmaceuticals and private health companies become involved, as has happened. Just blame migrants, and very few people will look at the actual facts.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| W12 20 Dec 19 1.23pm | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Well first, I think many of us on the left have always been critical of the EU on this front. We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU. Second, migration is the argument which gives the establishment the most glee. It is in their interest, because as profit makers, migrants bring in the least money to a private based system. And of course it is the perfect scapegoat for the inneficiencies of the NHS, even when those inefficiencies are made so much worse when pharmaceuticals and private health companies become involved, as has happened. Just blame migrants, and very few people will look at the actual facts. Trying to deliberately Conflate trade deals with handing over of sovereignty to a foreign, un-elected and undemocratic power is clearly nonsense. The reason people wanted to leave the EU is because it's no longer just a trade organisation (and probably never intended to be). In fact it's the essence of neo liberalism. Your second point is unclear. Who is "the establishment" in this context? Are you saying this "establishment" is somehow anti immigration? Is it due to "inefficiency" that we continue to increase the NHS funding or the fact we add an extra 500,000 people a year whilst the native population shrinks? In your own words they "bring in the least money" so who is paying their share other than through taxes on normal working people and endless borrowing and national debt?
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 2.24pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Trying to deliberately Conflate trade deals with handing over of sovereignty to a foreign, un-elected and undemocratic power is clearly nonsense. The reason people wanted to leave the EU is because it's no longer just a trade organisation (and probably never intended to be). In fact it's the essence of neo liberalism. Your second point is unclear. Who is "the establishment" in this context? Are you saying this "establishment" is somehow anti immigration? Is it due to "inefficiency" that we continue to increase the NHS funding or the fact we add an extra 500,000 people a year whilst the native population shrinks? In your own words they "bring in the least money" so who is paying their share other than through taxes on normal working people and endless borrowing and national debt?
Jacob Rees Mogg. A founder of Somerset capital which seeks to make millions off Brexit either way in speculation. Aaron Banks. Another venture capitalist has on record accepted business opportunities from the Russians in return for funding vote leave. Viscount Lord Rothemere, the hereditary owner of media company which runs the Daily mail, who leaves his money in offshore tax havens. Nigel Farage, another former trader who left the Tories and set up UKIP because of his anger at EU regulations in finance. Boris Johnson, an old etonian who has written in sympathy of the EU (when he thought it would further his political career), in support of May's deal (when he thought it would further his political career) for no deal (when he thought it would further his political career) and in support of his own deal (you get the picture). If you genuinely believe that the establishment is corrupt and f***ing over the ordinary person in this cou try then good luck to you. But if you think Brexit will solve it, I fear you're in for a major disappointment...
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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