You were the one suggesting I read a document, looking for tables when it turns out the information is just a confirmation of what I and other had been saying anyway.

Pointless, time wasting.

Yeah, that's right Maple, computer degree, yet I can't understand data tables. You really are the up in the clouds in love with your own arrogance.

I couldn't be bothered to read it....just as well as it just confirmed what I'm saying anyway. It's hardly as if summaries haven't been around of the current situation.

The Great Barrington declaration proved your earlier statements wrong about no viral specialists disagreeing with covid policy and all you have in return is a different set of specialists taking a different view.....I wonder who is sponsoring them....You didn't bother finding that one out did you.

Anyway there's a lot of negativity flying about and I'd rather enjoy my Christmas so I'm knocking off for a few days to enjoy it with my family.

To anyone who cares, here's to you enjoying your festivities.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Dec 2021 5.44pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yes, this is very good news and although it has been looking this way since the early days of its emergence it is reassuring for all the continuing evidence to be pointing towards a much less severe variant in terms of illness.

The problem with The Great Barrington declaration is the amount of people in households with people who would need to isolate. That would obviously depend on how far and how low you go with % risk but in 2020 the opposition to this had it at a very high % of the population isolating, with a lot of key workers in these households. The other big factor is how long you’d have them isolating. They would still be isolating now and into 2022.

The vulnerable isolating wouldn’t have meant this would have gone away. It might have meant Alpha and Delta blew through the population but there’s just another variant on the way, and another and another potentially. You could respond with needing to accept this and move on. To be able to do that in a responsible way the NHS would need more resources. This doesn’t happen instantly. They knew this when they dismantled the nightingale hospitals but erected them if a tsunami of death arose. They were only going to be manned by retired health workers and the army temporarily.

Whichever solution people propose there’s going to be losers, and that’s been happening with virtually every decision and restriction. I certainly agree that it’s an unfair burden of debt on the younger generations and their future, and oddly last year many remainers were arguing for a year long lockdown after pointing the finger at Leave voters for ruining the lives and futures of younger generations. But it seems we’re joining the whole of the western world on that one.

I don’t know where they’re going to go with this 4th vax in spring and one every 3 months even if they start with vulnerable, and then, as we’ve seen, move onto everyone else, and that could be it for me.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Dec 2021 6.57pm)

COYP

Yes at the end of the day you can't indefinitely hide from a virus. The rest of the country carrying on regardless would've just created countless further avenues for infection so you soon end up in a worse position anyway. And this at a time where so much was still unknown would've been a reckless approach in the beginning at least. Was The Great Barrington declaration a wish to protect vulnerable groups while keeping society ticking, or more advocated by people wishing that the virus (and possibly the vulnerable) were immediately out of sight and out of mind for the sake of the economy. It was written and signed at the American Institute for Economic Research, so they're hardly concerned with health or indeed death of those out of the workforce.

The fact that herd immunity clearly didn't pan out how this proposal envisioned, and that a vaccine was likely to (and has) offered a way out for many are both reasons not to immediately throw people to the wolves under a highly flawed rationale for 'protecting them'. Those pointing out that health services are on hold from many conditions due to covid, should also consider that their attitudes towards vaccinated are the major factor in making that the case.

There are plenty or good arguments about no further restrictions post vaccination, but as you rightly say whatever the approach it was always going to look horrendous when compared to the status quo. There is never going to be a balance that everyone is pleased with, and beyond a point there's something to be said with just getting on with things. Hopefully we're just about at that point now as a decent degree of immunity combined with natural infections is about as good as it's going to get. A flu jab situation before long...

Edited by BlueJay (23 Dec 2021 11.37pm)

I think it’s incumbent of us to be aware of our COVID status as often and as regularly as possibly, especially with the Omicron variant spreading so rapidly and especially as I don’t want to infect anyone at what is potentially such an important time for them and for their families.

We are going out each day and are in contact with others whilst we are out so a lateral flow test each day 30 minutes before we go out is a vital part of trying not to pass on any infection we may be carrying. My son is not displaying symptoms and was negative when tested yesterday, however at 2pm this afternoon he tested positive, we have therefore stayed in and a neighbour very kindly went shopping for us instead so we haven’t had any contact with anyone since yesterday at around midday. We will now keep Lateral Flow testing each day whilst trying to be as savvy around our son as we possibly can, bearing in mind that it is Christmas in two days time.

It is one of the elementary reasons for taking a lateral flow test and now because of it we are far less likely to transmit it to anyone outside of our household.

Important also to remember that:

"Because the vast majority of the adult population of the UK has been vaccinated against Covid, if even a small proportion of them get seriously ill, it may be enough to outnumber the severe cases which are more common among the unvaccinated."

Being accurate is important of course, as is having an over all sensible view of the good that the vaccine has done and the picture and situation before us.

Pick a critical care ward and this is the picture you generally see: [Link] \ [Link] \ [Link] \ [Link]

Considering the percentage of those vaccinated, it's quite staggering that so many in intensive care (around a third of whom will die) are still unvaccinated and informs us what an utterly dire situation we would still be in if more people wasted their time disparaging and/or avoiding the vaccine.

It's important to consider that many of these people would not even be critically ill if they'd been vaccinated. Like others, they were drawn into thinking 'they knew better' to the point that they nearly died or did in fact die because of it. They would've been much better off if they'd tuned out the noise.

Edited by BlueJay (24 Dec 2021 2.03am)