2022 Conservative Leadership Election.
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 orpingtoneagle  Orpington 07 Jun 22 3.24pm |
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To go back on topic, I feel this last few days is an absolute farce. Boris was never going to lose a vote and is unlikely to stand down. Like him or loathe him there are huge swathes of society who may not be your average Tory voter who see in their eyes a man who can do no wrong. He could be filmed jumping naked around the cabinet table and sniffing coke off Priti Patel's naked breasts (and don't thank me for that image as it stays with you...) and people will just say ' Oh that's just Boris, look at what he has done for us all,' and he would not stand down. Right now he has the reputation of being a winner and until the Tories I'm marginal seats feel their own position is under threat they will not rock the boat too much. We have had a challenge he is now immune for a while and will stick around. I cannot see an effective opposition to threaten that and could even see in a couple of years a coalition with Boris at the heart of it as whatever your views people like him.
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| Stirlingsays 07 Jun 22 3.30pm |
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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle
To go back on topic, I feel this last few days is an absolute farce. Boris was never going to lose a vote and is unlikely to stand down. Like him or loathe him there are huge swathes of society who may not be your average Tory voter who see in their eyes a man who can do no wrong. He could be filmed jumping naked around the cabinet table and sniffing coke off Priti Patel's naked breasts (and don't thank me for that image as it stays with you...) and people will just say ' Oh that's just Boris, look at what he has done for us all,' and he would not stand down. Right now he has the reputation of being a winner and until the Tories I'm marginal seats feel their own position is under threat they will not rock the boat too much. We have had a challenge he is now immune for a while and will stick around. I cannot see an effective opposition to threaten that and could even see in a couple of years a coalition with Boris at the heart of it as whatever your views people like him. I'm not a fan of Johnson myself but the issue you or anyone else have who opposes him....and as shown that's plenty of Tories as well....is that he's likeable. So you're kind of stuck with the same issue the Tories had when Blair was around.....these leaders are kind of normie catnip and that's just how it is. That said, the economy will always play a big factor in how any election goes.....So we could end up with woke Labour just by proxy of there not being anyone else to vote for. Even though Labour would have gone just as hard on all the same economic decisions that led here. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 3.31pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Jun 22 3.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't mean to belittle you as I think what you are saying is genuine. If it relates to previous posts then It's a fair criticism that I might be out of context as I haven't read previous posts. My point was that if we are going to distribute 'blame' onto groups for reason A or B then I think it's fair that those topics are specified. Because what I tend to see are a lot of catchment, whereas if you agree with a particular position the suggestion is it means you must be in particular specified ideological groups.....and...you know that must mean we're going to end up murdering Jews. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 2.51pm) Oh OK, so my comment was aimed at 'groups' as a generalisation, not at a particular group of side of the political spectrum etc. etc. To reiterate it is more a philosophical stance not a particular shot at a specific group, if that makes sense? I myself am very adverse to committing absolutely to any political, moral or otherwise stance without complete and concrete evidence, '1+1=2', and I do often ponder and quite frankly dislike the mentality of those that do. I then just went off on a raging tangent about examples where this has proved detrimental and destructive in more recent human history. It was in light of those opposing Brexit, who like it or not can now be readily identified as anti-democratic, whichever way they try and spin it.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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cryrst  The garden of England 07 Jun 22 3.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't mean to belittle you as I think what you are saying is genuine. If it relates to previous posts then It's a fair criticism that I might be out of context as I haven't read previous posts. My point was that if we are going to distribute 'blame' onto groups for reason A or B then I think it's fair that those topics are specified. Because what I tend to see are a lot of catchment, whereas if you agree with a particular position the suggestion is it means you must be in particular specified ideological groups.....and...you know that must mean we're going to end up murdering Jews. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 2.51pm) I read what the poster wrote and it was more literal than cryptic. I reckon imo it basically reads as an ie that if gender neutral want one toilet for all then they get one and it’s happened even though a tiny % are in this group. Like teaching nippers about sex at aged 5 and 6 because a small minority think it’s correct, it’s all about the loudest alongside our ‘leaders’ being actually affected by what the minority think. I mean ffs labour can’t even identify what a real woman is because it might get them bad press. Just my innocent take tbh.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 07 Jun 22 3.32pm |
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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle
To go back on topic, I feel this last few days is an absolute farce. Boris was never going to lose a vote and is unlikely to stand down. Like him or loathe him there are huge swathes of society who may not be your average Tory voter who see in their eyes a man who can do no wrong. He could be filmed jumping naked around the cabinet table and sniffing coke off Priti Patel's naked breasts (and don't thank me for that image as it stays with you...) and people will just say ' Oh that's just Boris, look at what he has done for us all,' and he would not stand down. Right now he has the reputation of being a winner and until the Tories I'm marginal seats feel their own position is under threat they will not rock the boat too much. We have had a challenge he is now immune for a while and will stick around. I cannot see an effective opposition to threaten that and could even see in a couple of years a coalition with Boris at the heart of it as whatever your views people like him. I think that's quite an outdated view of Boris... the veneer has fallen. Latest polling had 42% of Tory members agreeing that Conservative MPs should vote to remove him and 68% of the population think he's doing 'badly' as Prime Minister. Only 26% think he's doing 'well'. He's on borrowed time already and will soon be nothing more than "the worst PM we've ever had" in the history books.
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| Stirlingsays 07 Jun 22 3.34pm |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
Oh OK, so my comment was aimed at 'groups' as a generalisation, not at a particular group of side of the political spectrum etc. etc. To reiterate it is more a philosophical stance not a particular shot at a specific group, if that makes sense? I myself am very adverse to committing absolutely to any political, moral or otherwise stance without complete and concrete evidence, '1+1=2', and I do often ponder and quite frankly dislike the mentality of those that do. I then just went off on a raging tangent about examples where this has proved detrimental and destructive in more recent human history. It was in light of those opposing Brexit, who like it or not can now be readily identified as anti-democratic, whichever way they try and spin it. Apologies for any misunderstandings I might have had. I think I better understand you here. You have a distain for idealogs, I get that....I think in many senses it's a good instinct.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| orpingtoneagle Orpington 07 Jun 22 3.37pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm not a fan of Johnson myself but the issue you or anyone else have who opposes him....and as shown that's plenty of Tories as well....is that he's likeable. So you're kind of stuck with the same issue the Tories had when Blair was around.....these leaders are kind of normie catnip and that's just how it is. That said, the economy will always play a big factor in how any election goes.....So we could end up with woke Labour just by proxy of there not being anyone else to vote for. Even though Labour would have gone just as hard on all the same economic decisions that led here. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 3.31pm) I deliberately tried to not profess a political viewpoint in my post as it was meant to be a comment on the man not the party, and indeed I was making that very point, whatever he seems to do a large section of the public like him and no other party right now has that (apart from maybe Nichola Sturgeon in Scotland.) But time will tell,
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| orpingtoneagle Orpington 07 Jun 22 3.41pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I think that's quite an outdated view of Boris... the veneer has fallen. Latest polling had 42% of Tory members agreeing that Conservative MPs should vote to remove him and 68% of the population think he's doing 'badly' as Prime Minister. Only 26% think he's doing 'well'. He's on borrowed time already and will soon be nothing more than "the worst PM we've ever had" in the history books. I was not thinking of Tory party members as they are often not the key to electoral success (aside from being the foot soldiers to mobilise the vote.) I am thinking of the man in the street who seem to find him honest and appealing.
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| Stirlingsays 07 Jun 22 3.41pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
I read what the poster wrote and it was more literal than cryptic. I reckon imo it basically reads as an ie that if gender neutral want one toilet for all then they get one and it’s happened even though a tiny % are in this group. Like teaching nippers about sex at aged 5 and 6 because a small minority think it’s correct, it’s all about the loudest alongside our ‘leaders’ being actually affected by what the minority think. I mean ffs labour can’t even identify what a real woman is because it might get them bad press. Just my innocent take tbh. I think I homed in a little on Nicholas's post when he was making a far more generalised point. I hadn't read what was before and that's always a fair point....one I've made myself. I'd agree with you that specific positions on actual issues are far more concrete and obviously mate you know where I stand on the ones you raise. But I probably shouldn't have jumped in when I hadn't been part of the back and forth. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jun 2022 3.44pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 07 Jun 22 3.44pm |
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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle
I deliberately tried to not profess a political viewpoint in my post as it was meant to be a comment on the man not the party, and indeed I was making that very point, whatever he seems to do a large section of the public like him and no other party right now has that (apart from maybe Nichola Sturgeon in Scotland.) But time will tell, Fair enough and good points.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 07 Jun 22 3.45pm |
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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle
I was not thinking of Tory party members as they are often not the key to electoral success (aside from being the foot soldiers to mobilise the vote.) I am thinking of the man in the street who seem to find him honest and appealing. I think that is hugely out-of-date. Anyone describing him as 'honest' is just objectively wrong at this point. [Tweet Link]
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| Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Jun 22 3.46pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Apologies for any misunderstandings I might have had. I think I better understand you here. You have a distain for idealogs, I get that....I think in many senses it's a good instinct. Ah nice, you had me worried there Stirling! I'll try to provide more clarity about future posts and their context in future!
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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