Who is to blame?
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 the silurian  The garden of England.(not really) 15 Dec 19 1.30pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
PR doesn't allow minority parties to hold power at all. It just allows those who support them to be fairly represented The Greens with 3% of the vote wouldn't dictate anything under a PR system. They would though be represented so their votes would matter. More relevantly the Brexit Party got 2% of the vote, even after committing political suicide, but no seats at all. Of course as an EU advocate I don't want us to exit. Nor do a majority of our fellow citizens, now they have seen what the implications are. Do you seriously think that if in 2016 we had voted to remain that would have shut up the likes of Farage? No. A battle has been lost but the war is far from over. A soft Brexit will make it much easier to re-enter when the mood of the country changes. As it surely will. Only when is in doubt and not if.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Dec 19 1.36pm |
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Originally posted by the silurian
Labour were humiliated because of the media.
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| the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 15 Dec 19 1.43pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
Labour were humiliated because of the media.
Yeah but no but.....Willo, surely the Earth is Flat, specially round Wisbech (Truro)...and of course plans are afoot to overturn the Election result as it didnt go how the snowflakes wanted....and of course night doesnt follow day (ask our Great Leader Parrish)...
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| Midlands Eagle 15 Dec 19 1.52pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The only "self righteous drivel" that I have seen here comes from a small cabal of hard right posters. Not, of course, that they will recognise that let alone be able to see it. I did laugh when I read that
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Dec 19 1.57pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
ME I readily admit to letting out a sealion bark of laughter.
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| deleted user 15 Dec 19 2.02pm |
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There are pros and cons to PR and it certainly would impact who people vote for, add relevance to every vote and encourage working together and compromise instead of constant loggerheads. On the cons side though, as Willo pointed out there would be no large majorities without FPTP and there is something to be said for parties having room to breathe to get things done without being impeded in their vision for the country. Also, as the winner of any given election has likely directly benefited from FPTP, any potential move towards PR is always hamstrung by that fact.
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| since1953 Maidenhead 15 Dec 19 2.20pm |
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Who is to blame? In a word "Momentum". The ink had not dried on the polling papers when these Trotskyist plonkers were out on the streets with their "Boris Out" mantra. Momentum were responsible for the election of the Party heirachy in the first place with their "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" sing-song.Maybe it was Ed Milliband's responsibilty in the first place for changing the rules on the voting for the party leaders, but the genie is now out of the bottle, and any chance of an electorable centre left Labour is far in the distance.
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| Matov 15 Dec 19 3.11pm |
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If you can bear it, watch this lot... It is a lot to stomach but the high-lights for me so far (can only bear it in small doses because I am overdosing on the Schadenfreude) come at about 30 minutes in when they get the news of the exit polls and at about 2 hours and 1 minute in when they hear about Blythe Valley. Drink in the tears and relish the lack of self-admonishment. Apparently it is actually a good thing that Labour lost on the scale they did and that really, when you break it all down, a second referendum was actually a really good idea because they won Putney. Still not get to the part where they realise Boris increased his majority in Uxbridge. But on a serious note, this is the Enemy. These are the ones who if allowed to would have the likes of me on the trains to re-education camps and destroy freedom of speech and opinion. Yes, we can laugh and I do, a lot, but do not underestimate them. They are the ones who genuinely believe that if a man decides to wear a frock and declare himself a lady then we are expected to stand back as they use ladies toilets and so on whilst our loved ones are in there.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Dec 19 7.02pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
If that many people were desperate to leave they would have voted for Liberal Democrats or Green Party or Plaid Cymru all of which fared badly in the election Tactical voting explains that. If the only way to have stopped the Tories meant a hung Parliament which in turn meant voting for your second of third preference if they were the ones who could beat them, then that's what you do. It happened here. Some traditional LibDems voted Labour as they were a close second in 2017.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 15 Dec 19 7.06pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Tactical voting explains that. If the only way to have stopped the Tories meant a hung Parliament which in turn meant voting for your second of third preference if they were the ones who could beat them, then that's what you do. It happened here. Some traditional LibDems voted Labour as they were a close second in 2017. Well that sound like your saying that if people hadn't voted tactically the Tories margin of victory would have been even bigger? Interesting point!
One more point |
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cryrst  The garden of England 15 Dec 19 7.07pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Tactical voting explains that. If the only way to have stopped the Tories meant a hung Parliament which in turn meant voting for your second of third preference if they were the ones who could beat them, then that's what you do. It happened here. Some traditional LibDems voted Labour as they were a close second in 2017. A bit like when ed Miliband won with more places than wins against his very much more capable brother.
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| Stirlingsays 15 Dec 19 8.08pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
A bit like when ed Miliband won with more places than wins against his very much more capable brother. If you look back in hindsight the election of Ed instead of Dave was their undoing.....and that was the unions again wasn't it. Essentially Ed changed their leader election rules to take more account of the membership.....which I think is ethically correct.....but it had the practical result of turning the party far left. Which is a fair reflection of the grass roots but not a fair reflection of the wider public......There's nothing in the 'progressive' mindset that's going to attract the normies......though I know they think there is. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Dec 2019 8.09pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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