Unfortunately, we might have been occupied before Russia entered the war. The battle Of Britain was in 1940. Russia entered the war in 1941. I assume you are suggesting that Hitler would have ignored us if we hadn't declared war on Germany. I have considered that myself, but without fighting on several fronts, Germany might well have occupied all of Europe, especially if Japan had not attacked America. All supposition.

Right now it is a guessing game, but I suspect that both sides know that unless their very existence is threatened, they won't press the red button. What would be the point?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (09 Feb 2023 10.18pm)

That supposes that the people in charge give a feck about the general pleb in the street.....Mmmmm.

Old men who only have a few years left in the tank are very fond of letting young men die for them.....Both Putin and Biden fit that criteria for me.

No one is willing to lose face and this playing chicken is all part of that. The stakes are far too high Hrolf....even an accident would be beyond terrible.

My position is that this isn't a hill worth dying on.

I've come to believe that you should only fight wars that you yourself are willing to die in.

This isn't the one for me.

In fact the only wars that I consider we had any business fighting in during my lifetime were the Falklands and the Afghanistan war.....to get at Bin Laden rather than the madness of staying there.

Everything else was either something for the UN, a bit fat lie for the agenda of others or not sufficiently our business.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Feb 2023 11.38pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I understand your concerns but what is your evidence for saying that Putin has plans for taking these countries?

There are a few reasons why I think this analysis deserves questions. Firstly, I again make the point that Russia before last year had not mobilised an army to do what you suggest.....not even close to it.

Secondly, Putin has often criticised the Soviet union for how it was run.

Thirdly...and probably the strongest point, Putin needs the support of China, Turkey and India and the other BRICs countries. Now, he can justify the Ukraine war....not that most people get told those arguments in the west....but he's made those arguments and been accepted there. However, the prospect of a expansionist war against non border countries would be much more difficult.

Four, what you are suggesting would involve massive cost, take time and constant warfare. Putin can sell the Ukraine war to his people but even if he wanted to do this I'm not sure how he would sell it.

I have to be honest, I don't think you can justify a war on 'what if'.

I tell you what, if we negotiated a settlement with Putin in Ukraine and he then went and invaded another European country without any real cause I would support doing this. Let's not forget that Russia was negotiating with Ukraine on a settlement back in March and we and the States refused to let them come to an agreement.....Does that sound like Russia wanting war with four other countries?

Otherwise I regard the arguments for continuing this war as very weak and it's not without cause that the mainstream media aren't allowing opposing arguments to be made.....because they are frankly frightened of just how much their justifications are built upon fears rather than reason.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Feb 2023 10.01am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Russia did not mobilise a more powerful army as Putin had been convinced that the Ukranians would view its move as relatively neutral to them, not particularly bad and not worth fighting over. After all, as all Russians keep saying, Ukrainians are simply Russians that have been brainwashed into thinking they aren't.

Russia believed one relatively strong push would be enough for the Ukrainian government to accept the inevitable. It was totally shocked by the actual reaction as, to be frank, was I.

Puppet Government = unpopular and not really answerable to the people of their respective country.

Macron in France
Trudeau in Canada

Biden in the US
the late Jacinda Arden in New Zealand

the late Angela Merkel's political career

Rishi Sunak
Varadkar in Ireland

the West is awash with unpopular puppets. Often childless puppets. Puppets that nobody voted for

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

Which leader could?

We will have to agree to disagree on basing our military involvement, economic downgrading and possible deaths upon 'what ifs'.

Like my point earlier Hrolf, what you are essentially saying here is our state's position. But our state told us lies on Iraq, Libya and Syria just to name three recent wars....they fecked it up in all those countries. The media was full of commentary on all of those wars none of which ended up as the result or reality.

None of these feckers are honest, Putin or Biden or Sunak or any of them. They all lie and paint themselves as the saints and their opposition as sinners. No, they are all pawns playing their own power games and selective morality is their calling card.

Why would you ever echo their position and opinions now? Especially when this particular war affects us both economically and in risk of death.

I think our leaders have taken us down several bad directions all of which are worsening our lives. But as they control the megaphone and there is no one effectively challenging them. The public just resorts to the 'go along to get along' that is effectively universal majority human behaviour.
No different to what happens in Russia itself.

To quote:

'The whole system revolves around the idea that the majority can be made to believe anything so long as it is repeated loudly and often and it works.' (Edward Snowdon)

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Feb 2023 12.17am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)